S3E34 | Carrie Olaje - Ex-Occult Butcher & Child Trafficking, Mind Control & Ritual Abuse Survivor

This is a throwback episode to honor the amazing Carrie Olaje who has been super busy and can't wait to start podcasting again! I wanted to shine a light on her testimony (and first ever episode we did together) as it generated tens of thousands of views on my last YouTube channel before it was terminated and then was reuploaded to this channel. She is absolutely phenomenal. Lets revisit Carrie's first ever podcast and public disclosure...

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This week you are going to meet someone who immediately caught my attention when she reached out - and after I got to know her - she also captured my heart! Introducing: mind control, ritual abuse, and human trafficking survivor, warrior, mother, wife, artist, creative gallery owner, muralist, tattoo studio owner, and literal walking miracle: Carrie Olaje!

I met Carrie through a private message and my jaw immediately dropped on the floor after I read her words. No matter how long I’ve been doing these podcasts, I’m still constantly in shock and awe in learning about the things other people have experienced and Carrie’s story was no exception. Born into a multi-generational incest-based family, Carrie’s abuse started from birth and was perpetuated by family and close family friends. As she began remembering and recalling her memories as an adult, she realized her life was not what she thought it was and began putting the pieces together of a story that is both equally as horrific as it is inspiring. Because despite ALL the time, effort, and money spent to keep Carrie locked up in a life of control and obedience, they never anticipated Carrie would not only awaken to her abuse, but that she would put a stop to it and that it would end with her. Carrie now has a son of her own who is a big part of the ‘WHY’ behind her decision to speak out and one day he will grow up to realize his amazing mother is a real life hero. This is how we change the world - one circuit-breaker at a time!

One of the things I love most about Carrie - besides her infectious personality and laugh is her ability to break down hard ideas in ways that are as creative as she is! On today’s show, you will get to experience some incredible visuals drawn by Carrie to help express parts of her life that are hard to put into words. I love adding visuals to podcasts and if you are listening from Itunes or Spotify, feel free to open up YouTube or Bitchute as well to view the art we will be discussing periodically on the show. Carrie will be going into details on her abuse on this episode, so I am going to add a *TRIGGER WARNING* to this episode in case anyone is sensitive to hearing or seeing graphic details. I’m so excited for you to meet and learn from Carrie and am so honored she is here with us this week!

And just a reminder that if you are a survivor or whistleblower who wants to share your information or story on this podcast, you can now email me at IMAGINEABETTERWORLD2020@GMAIL.COM! Please send me a briefing on who you are and what you’d like to present. All my social media links are also in the links in the show notes - please connect in case I continue to be censored on these different platforms. My donation links are also in the show notes if you’d like to contribute any donations that go towards helping with the funds needed to run this podcast.

🔗CARRIE'S PLAYLIST ON 'THE IMAGINATION':
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoojlrL9wVRO1KGiUKpKBLzbk6wtuAiAM

🔗CONNECT WITH CARRIE:
YouTube: @carrieolaje - https://www.youtube.com/@UCdgtjL2cFCGqP2OCvi9wCGA

🔗CONNECT WITH EMMA:
YouTube: @imaginationpodcastofficial  - https://www.youtube.com/@imaginationpodcastofficial
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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Heavenly Father, today we put on the full armor to protect us against attack. We put on the belt of truth to protect against lies and deception. We put on the breastplate of righteousness to protect our hearts from the temptations. We put the gospel of peace on our feet to walk in your light, peace and freedom with the Holy Spirit. We rebuke anxious thoughts. We take up your shield of faith for protection to block and destroy all the darts and threats thrown at us by the enemy. We put on the helmet of salvation to cover our minds and thoughts, reminding us that we are children of a mighty king. We are forgiven, set free, saved by the blood of Jesus. We take up the sword of the Spirit, your living word, that has the power to demolish strongholds and is sharper than any double-edged sword. We come to you, Lord, in prayer daily. In Jesus' mighty name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

What's up, you guys? Welcome to The Imagination. I'm your host, Emma, and this week you are going to meet someone who immediately caught my attention when she reached out. And after I got to know her, she also captured my heart. Introducing mind control, ritual abuse, and human trafficking survivor, warrior, mother, wife, artist, creative gallery owner, muralist, tattoo studio owner, a literal walking miracle, and my dear friend, Carrie Olahe. I met Carrie through a private message, and my jaw dropped immediately on the floor after I read her words. No matter how long I've been doing these podcasts, I'm still constantly in shock and awe and learning about the things other people have experienced. And Carrie's story was no exception. Born into a multi-generational incest-based family, Carrie's abuse started from birth and was perpetuated by family and close family friends. As she began remembering and recalling her memories as an adult, she realized her life was not what she thought it was and began putting the pieces together of a story that is both equally as horrific as it is inspiring. Because despite all the time, effort, and money kept to keep Carrie locked up in a life of control and obedience, her abusers never anticipated that she would not only awaken to her abuse, but that she would put a stop to it and that it would end with her. Carrie now has a son of her own who is a big part of the why behind her decision to speak out. And one day he will grow up to realize his amazing mother is a real life hero. This is how we change the world, one circuit breaker at a time. One of the things I love most about Carrie, besides her infectious personality, is her ability to break down hard ideas in ways that are as creative as she is. On today's show, you will get to experience some incredible visuals drawn by Carrie to help express parts of her life that are hard to put into words. I love when guests add visuals to the podcast. And if you are listening from iTunes or Spotify, feel free to open up YouTube or BitChute as well to view the art we will be discussing periodically on the show. Carrie will be going into details of her abuse on this episode. So I'm going to add a trigger warning just in case anyone is sensitive to hearing or seeing graphic details. I'm so excited for you to meet and learn from Carrie, and I'm so honored she is here with us here with us this week. And just a reminder that if you're a survivor or a whistleblower who wants to share your information or story on this podcast, or if you just want to get a hold of me, you can now email me at imagineabetterworld2020 at gmail.com. Please send me a briefing on who you are and what you'd like to present. And all my social media links are also in the show notes. And you guys are free to connect with me just in case I'm censored on any of these platforms. My donation links are also in the show notes if you'd like to contribute any donations that go towards helping the funds that need it to run this podcast, also. So you guys, without further ado, please help me in welcoming this week's guest, Voice for the Voiceless, Fierce Mama Bear, Walking Miracle, Anti-Child Abuse Advocate, Creative and Artist, Overcomer and Survivor, the one, the only, Carrie Olahe. Carrie, thank you so much for being here with me today.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Thank you so much, Emma. I am like blushing. Um what an what an intro, you know. Um, it's hard not to feel empowered after, you know, hearing your life put that way. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

I know it's I feel like um these stories are so horrible, and survivors don't grow up in environments where you're told the strengths that you have, like all your strengths are exploited. And so I think hearing your strengths in a positive way is such a beautiful thing to be able to present, you know, and it's like those are the things that you should have been hearing all along and the things that hopefully you'll you'll be hearing, you know, your whole life on from everybody that meets you. So it's an honor to have you here. Your story impacted me so much, and I know it's gonna impact everybody that's listening. Um, and your story is so multidimensional, it's a little bit different than a lot of the women that I've had on my show, and I know that you'll be breaking that down. Um, but I'm gonna turn it over to you. And I'm thinking maybe we go back to the beginning and just as best as we can, you know, work through the information um of your of what we call your your your crazy life. And, you know, get towards the present in a sense. So do some sort of chronological and um, you know, we'll just go back to the beginning and talk a little bit about your origins and your family origins.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Sounds great.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Thanks so much. Um well, um, I think one thing that you just said really hit it on the head, you know, is essentially you said our strengths are exploited, you know. And I think that's something that pretty much anyone who's a survivor of, you know, of trafficking, you know, and sexual abuse, you know, like in general will definitely feel. And is something I feel like was the biggest reason I really stuck with my healing in the beginning, you know, like a lot of survivors, you know, experience overwhelm when you're dealing with flashbacks and all the all the answers to the PTSD symptoms you've experienced your whole life, essentially, you know, like start coming in. Usually, you know, for me is late 20s, you know, for other people, it's a little bit earlier, other people later, you know, but I mean it's stuff that you've been avoiding your your whole life, you know. So it's something that that you really like. And you've been brought up, like you said, in an environment where your strengths are exploited. So for me, it was it was a I was at the point where I couldn't understand that like I never I was doing a lot of the things that you said, you know, so very like, you know, um publicly uh things that get me a lot of attention, you know, in the public, you know, big art projects, you know, uh big tattoo clientele, like all that fun stuff, you know. And it to me, it felt empty. And no one could understand, like why, you know, and my therapists, you know, too, I couldn't understand why it was that a compliment for me didn't mean, oh, someone's like appreciating something I did and something I am. It meant for me, what does this person want to get from me, essentially? So that's one thing I think is the biggest benefit of healing, you know, is that I finally feel like all of my strengths are my own, you know, and that I'm not, you know, working against myself anymore. And that um essentially a lot of the things I used to hate myself about because the things that get you targeted for programs like this, you know, um, when it comes to uh comes to not just the trafficking, you know, but when it comes to more like um MK Ultra style programs and everything, you know, it's always because of your of your strengths, you know, that essentially get you chosen for more abuse, you know. So, you know, so it's a part of why of why I'm heal here, you know, is it is is taking your power back, you know, like finally, you know, to just, you know, to just share all the things you were never supposed to, you know, um, and you know, and really talk about what it is to survive the things you're not supposed to, you know.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yes. And those are lessons that are so invaluable just in general to learn because you can, let's just say you wanted to start a business, right? I feel like that gets so much attention in the world as being hard. And people who start a business get so much, you know, notoriety in society and they get platforms and they're the people, you know, everybody's fawning over. And it's like, but wait, like they chose to do that, first of all. And second of all, you know, there's templates to follow, like business isn't something new, right? But like I think anybody could find a formula and like if they stuck to it and you know follow the footsteps of other people, they could be successful too, right? But we're not taught how to deal with an obstacle that comes in the way of where we're going, you know, and that's inevitable no matter what we're doing, whether it is something like starting a business or just living life as a human, you know, and so we can study all we want, like how to get from here to there and follow all these people, you know. But it's like our success is gonna depend upon how we deal with the roadblocks and the obstacles and the snowballs that are shooting our way that we got to push back up the hill, right? And that's what I think survivors really bring to the table is you guys help us navigate the world that we live in because it is unpredictable, it is traumatizing, it is full of all these abuses being thrown at us, whether invisible or things that we can see with our own eyes, whether it's generational, you know, and we're not taught that. There's not many people out there, you know, taking a stand and helping society understand how trauma affects us, how to get through it, and how to be able to navigate the uncertainty of life, you know, not the things that we can memorize and recite and take a test for, but like real life stuff, you know, and you all do it with such a place of love, you know, you've you've discovered so much emotionally from breaking down all those layers. And I think you in particular, like you're very eloquent with helping explain those different layers, you know, what and the emotional part of it and the physical part of it and like just the how they intermingle with each other. And and I'm excited for people to get to learn those different lessons from you.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Thank you. Thank you. I I I really, I really appreciate it, you know. To me, like I've I've had a lot of, you know, people, therapists, you know, are indifferent be like, you know, you've you've healed so fast, you know, or I've been in AA for like 11 years. You got sober so quickly, you know, and everything. And I was like, I feel like I everything I've done, I've been forced into, you know, because the alternative was like, you know, nothing, essentially, you know. So it's like, for me, it's like the the healing, everything, you know, the the amount of time and work, you know, that goes into like, you know, ex exploring like the toughest topics and subjects, you know, and experiences you never wanted to think about ever again, you know what I mean? Like it's it's all it's all worth it, you know. And that that's really like why, why, you know, multiple reasons. I'll just quickly go over that, you know, multiple reasons that I'm here today, you know, is one to help inspire survivors, like many of the survivors on your show have inspired me, you know. But in addition to that, it's you know, once you come to a point in your healing where, you know, the anger gets bigger than the fear, essentially. To me, I just couldn't really like sleep with myself anymore, like knowing, essentially just knowing like how big the the trafficking problem was and knowing how big that industry was when I was a kid, and knowing that nothing had really changed, you know, and just like the number of victims that I personally saw that had it, you know, as bad as we're gonna go into what I what I went through, you know, that had it worse than me because, you know, they didn't make it out alive, you know, or they were they, you know, they disappeared into, you know, into a into a black hole, you know. And that's the thing that really pisses me off at this point is just knowing that like the only ones that know these, you know, these children, these animals, these, you know, like all these victims' experiences, the only ones that know them are the abusers and the abusers and the perpetrators, you know, and and those people think about it and they get off on it. They don't honor their memory at all, you know. And that's the thing for me that I, you know, is just knowing that it's I'm I'm at a place where I've I've been healing, you know, for with for seven years with trauma therapy, you know, and I'm I feel very lucky and very grateful to have such like a successful, you know, life, you know, from a professional and like, you know, a home standpoint, you know, I have beautiful family. Like it's just, it's just really like, I mean, more than I could have ever dreamed about, you know. But it's knowing, it's just, but just in my gut, you know, just like I can't, I can't stand the fact knowing that there are still kids in that situation, you know, and that they're gonna be years until they'll be out of it, you know, and even have the chance to heal, you know. So for me, it it at a certain point, it's it's very difficult to do this for sure. Like we, like you mentioned, we're gonna be talking about the most disgusting, humiliating, like evil acts that human beings can perpetrate on each other, you know, when it comes down to it, like the worst shit. But it it really, like I said, can't compare to like, you know, someone still going through that, you know, or you know, like I said, people that had it had it worse off than I did, you know, and that's that's why, you know, really that's why we're here. It's because is because I I feel, you know, I feel the need to add my voice to all the ones that you've had that have both helped me empower me to heal and speak out about the experiences I went through, but then also to, you know, eventually the weight of our voices, you know, is gonna create some sort of change, you know. Eventually it's gonna happen. And I I have a hunch sooner versus verses later, you know. So um, yeah, I mean, um beautiful. Yes, I'm gonna grab a quick drink and then you know, if you have any any questions, and then I'll just uh I'll just kind of get right into it. I'll kind of just get into like my my history, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Yeah, absolutely. I just wanted to say that it's I'm noticing more people are reaching out to me. And I know I've I've been around a little bit longer. I don't have a big platform, but you know, I was beating on people's doors in the beginning, and now I have people, you know, in my email and all my inboxes on all different social media, and it's like it is amazing just seeing, you know, torch bearers coming forth with a torch and people behind them in the darkness, seeing it in the distance and you know, coming up and grabbing it from them. And it's like you saw the light in your darkness and you know, found people that helped put your story together and found found things that motivated you as you know, as a survivor and as a mother and an overcomer. And now you get to pass that torch on to everybody listening to you. And I think that's such a beautiful full circle that you're completing here.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Thank you. So now we're about to go to the dark stuff. Like it's it's always such, it's always such a big leap to make, you know, when we when we go from like, you know, like focusing on the positive, the healing and all that stuff to why, you know, what got us here to begin with, you know. Um so, you know, when it comes to when it comes to the abuse and everything, um, I kind of have to start essentially before my birth and and just kind of really explain who uh my parents were. Uh so, you know, both my mother and father ended up joining the military very young, you know, I think um one was 18 and one was 17, you know, like coming from very small towns. Uh my father was uh is a Mexican-American immigrant. Um, and then my my mother was uh like a rural Indiana. Um and uh they they essentially joined the military, you know, to to kind of to get out of get out of their circumstances or whatever. Um but my dad uh essentially has always had a history of being uh a psychopath. Um so uh we can mince terms here, you know, we have psychopaths, we have sociopaths, and we have malignant narcissists, you know, when it comes down to it, you know, the psychopaths and the sociopaths are gonna be the ones that are perpetrating, you know, really horrible crimes and are not gonna have any empathy that prevents them from uh from holding back from that. You know, they they are going to take advantage of any situation they can. And the unfortunate thing is that um is that my dad kind of like, you know, a lot of uh a lot of people with antisocial personality disorder was, you know, what they considered like a complex one versus a simple one. You know, a simple one ends up in jail after a few crimes complex, you know, they're like, you know, your gaysies and everyone who, you know, everyone's like they were a pillar of the community, you know, so charming, so so funny, so intelligent, yada, yada, yada, you know, so all that stuff, you know, that that was that was my dad, you know, and he found in my mom essentially, you know, the perfect victim, you know, someone else who had also been abused generationally, you know, and was, you know, essentially like ready to be manipulated by a psychopath. Um, so the story, you know, for me, like, you know, that kind of really sets it up, you know, for, you know, kind of letting people know that that is one thing. Like we had mentioned, there are some things that I am grateful, you know, for that I'm a little bit different with other than other survivors is that I do have a very loving and supportive mom. You know, she was incredibly brainwashed by my dad for about like eight years before I was I was born, you know. So um between him and then essentially the system of friends and, you know, a somewhat institutional and organized uh system of trafficking and child abuse, you know, like it was um, there's a lot of ways that it was hidden from her, um, essentially. So um I am very lucky to say that she's in my corner, you know, and and really like, you know, fighting the fight with me when it comes to healing, you know, and and justice and all of all of the above, essentially. Um but uh what ended up happening, you know, is is very similar to like a lot of people, like is that my my dad um at some point early on in his military career, you know, got hooked up with uh um other uh pedophiles. You know, my my dad's a pedophile. He has a history of like of abusing, essentially before I was born, yeah, almost a decade, you know, I'm I'm aware of like instances and stuff. Um it's something that he's you know, that he's he's always been. And if you are aware of like the porn that he was into by the time I was around, it's something that you know it's not something they just start off on, essentially, which was, you know, which was snuff porn. And that's something that, you know, I unfortunately am like incredibly familiar with because it was something that that was um a particular favorite, you know, of my dad. Um he would abuse me a lot. That's a a lot of really common memories, you know, by incest by my dad, you know, is you know, growing up, you know, a lot of opportunities that he could find where my mom or brother were away from the house, you know, it would be, you know, finding essentially a film, you know, and abusing me, you know, while watching a film that's like someone being uh, you know, often like a child, you know, being tortured or killed, you know, in various ways. Like, and um, you know, and that's where the anger really comes in is not just to know that, you know, that these things happened, you know, but just to know that like someone could enjoy watching it over and over again, you know, while abusing their own kid, you know, like and that's the kind of evil that most people choose to like turn away from or just like want to believe it doesn't exist, you know, because it's like so different than their dad, you know. It's like how could or how they would be around their kids, you know, how could that even happen, you know? But that's you know, that's a psychopath, you know, they're their wiring is different, you know. I I believe that once the wiring is that different, there's a spiritual component to it too, you know, like and that really when it comes down to it, you know, anything that makes a normal human being happy, like the opposite is what makes them happy. So when it comes down to it, you know, that's you know, the the more the more power they can exert, you know, and the more like suffering and pain, which is evidence of the power they're exerting, you know, that they can witness the happier, the more they get off, you know, that's that's that's their addiction, you know. Um so so yeah, so so this is the kind of guy that essentially found my mom. Um I have a, you know, I I have a hunch, you know, that he was just looking for like a for a willing victim, essentially, you know, that he knew he'd be able to like, you know, to do essentially whatever he wanted. He was always having affairs, you know, um, you know, often like, you know, like men and women and couples possibly, you know, and stuff like that. It was it was the side of his life that my mom did know a little bit about. Essentially, you know, was essentially like the adultery and everything like that. But it also did set things up to where, you know, when uh first child came along, myself, you know, little girl, you know, I was, you know, I was essentially like like a victim, like there and waiting. Um so with uh with them, they they were they were stationed, both of them military medical field were stationed all over the US. Um, went to Germany for a little bit uh prior to being stationed um in Washington, DC, where I was uh I was born at Washington or at a Walter Reed medical, um which you know a lot of people have you know mentioned before as having you know very shady history and everything. Um but you know, around this time, essentially, you know, he was uh, I don't know how else to say it, he was uh brushing shoulders around the time of my birth, a few years, you know, a couple years before, you know, and after while while they were stationed there, um, with all a lot of like the high-ups and big wigs, I guess, you know, is is what I would what I would say. You know, there was there was a lot of like um high-up military officials that he was hanging out with, you know. Um, and there, I have a, you know, I have a hunch that that's where he essentially met the person that I guess a lot of the abuse that I went through during my life was essentially geared to create, you know, a a very specific kind of sex slave for a very specific person, you know. And and that's you know, that's a lot, a lot of a lot of my abuse that I went through, in particular, the violence, you know, just had to do in particular for, you know, who, you know, some people, you know, have the experience of being made to be, you know, slaves for politicians or different things. For mine, it was someone that was high up in the military, essentially. And um uh so around the time of my birth, you know, he was brushing shoulders with all with all the big wigs and stuff like that. Uh, you know, he he ended up um, you know, visiting the White House a bunch, you know. I have no memory of myself being there as well, you know, uh, because he was he was doing some medical work uh with the with President uh Reagan, essentially. So uh, you know, he he met, you know, uh the person that I was essentially going to be, you know, abused by longest, like around around that time. Um I uh have my first abuse memory there at Walter Reed Medical. You know, it's the incest, like kind of like it's hard to know when something like that begins. A lot of people have that experience because the grooming is usually not thing that's like really painful or traumatizing in the beginning, and it's a very slow step up and it's very started very early. So it's the kind of thing that crossing of boundaries. So it's the kind of thing that you're you're already, you know, um, there's already part of you essentially, like when the abuse picks up with like a more like organized group that is that the sex like like a sexual relationship with like with a caregiver is already is already natural, you know, like or is seen as like you know, there's part of you that doesn't see as wrong, you know, essentially, because it's been part of your experience your whole life, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

But you know, that's sensitized to it and conditions like that's like a normal, healthy relationship between a child and an adult. And like there's nothing else to base it off of, you know, children learn that only from their examples, and you weren't shown that.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah. I think that's the one of the main reasons that like most um, you know, why the trafficking organizations target, you know, the um the the kids of pedophiles so much, you know, too, is because they know they're gonna be they're gonna be abused. And in my experience, it's almost like um each each level of abuse or kind of like more organized abuse that you deal with almost like kind of like takes like an altar that's already been a part of you that's already been created, essentially, and then kind of like piggybacks on it to, you know, kind of create like a different like version of it. So I have like a feeling that that's a lot of like why, you know, like the interest is, you know, is you know, it's it's gonna be the multi-generational thing that, you know, the dissociation is gonna be more likely in, you know, subsequent generations, you know, the likelihood that you're gonna become dissociative is higher with each generation that's abused. But in addition, in addition to that, you know, you're gonna have, you know, like from birth and sometimes, you know, pre-birth, you know, like abuse that is essentially, you know, kind of like laying, laying the groundwork, you know, for uh like later on a more like you know, organized or or structured, you know, kind of like um, I don't know, path to take, you know, the dissociation and everything. Um that's really, you know, I think a lot, you know, a lot of why like that the memory for me, like my first memory at Walter Rita was probably around two and a half, you know, like really stuck out, you know, for me because it was the first time I was abused by someone other than my dad, you know, and it was a real betrayal memory, like essentially being in a doctor's office, you know, and you know, being abused by by a doctor, you know, who was essentially, you know, my my dad was sitting in the corner and he was essentially trying uh explaining to my dad how to like take the abuse to the next level with like by with but then kind of like both grooming, but then also like being able to like do more abuse without like as much damage, essentially, you know, because like I said, a lot of my stuff, and I think it was because too, like because I was like promised to someone that was a lot higher up, you know, like that there was always like you know, like limits it felt like to, you know, both because they're keeping my mom in the dark, but you know, like I said, who I was promised to, he was fairly, fairly possessive. It seemed like there was always like limits to like, you know, um certain things, you know, that could that could be, you know, done to me, you know. That being said, like it's like you'll you'll find it's like some of like the worst, some of the worst shit, you know what I mean? But it's like it was always it was very early on impressed upon me and other kids that were trafficked, you know, that like that there were different levels of slaves, you know, essentially, and that you, you know, if you always you didn't want to be the throwaway kind, essentially. You always, you know, and that was a lot of the the you know, the trauma programming, a lot of what it reinforces, you know, into into especially when you're in a place where they're forcing you to perpetrate or something. That's like that's the goal, you know. And I think that's also part of why I was targeted for, you know, my my particular abuser is just because of, you know, the psychopathic father and stuff like that, that it's like that a lot of times that is the hopes I think, you know, with the groomers is that you're you're both gonna have, you know, your your child prostitutes, you know, and then hopefully future, you know, people that will still, you know, make money for the organization. But then it's like you also are want always to be grooming more abusers, essentially. And that was a lot of like a lot of my abuse was stuff that was geared towards trying to create in me something that was more like, you know, more like my you know, my piece of shit father father. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah, and that is, you know, a huge part of it is trying to instill that psychopathic behavior in an innocent child that doesn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Normalize it.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Yes. You're right. It's like they don't get comfort, they don't get loved the same way as you know, kids grow up with parents that aren't involved with these things. And it's like it takes away the child's, you know, innocence. I don't know if that sounds cliche, but like it's literally taking away their purity, their innocence. It does it's not creating boundaries for a child. And so it's like, you know, for people that haven't gone through something like this, I think that's also really hard for people to to comprehend is like how don't if the if the abuse can be so bad, how doesn't somebody like maybe recognize it, you know, and that can be those two that have just been conditioned for so long and they get in unhealthy relationships over and over again. But you know, there's there's tactics and time and energy. Like if an abuser wants something, they will spend all the time, money, dedication to get it if there's some type of a fetish or some type of you know, a specific thing that they want, or a specific person or type of person. Like, you know, these people will go through like there's no lengths that will stop them from getting what they want, you know, and they have all the patience in the world, and that's hard for normal people to think about. Like, how why would you spend so many years grooming a child?

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Well, they've got a lot of other playthings in the meantime, you know, is what people don't understand. They don't have like it's not like they're they're like, oh, this is one person that I'm gonna wait and not abuse anyone else while I'm waiting for this person to get to the point where I can abuse them. Like, no, they're they're abusing as many people as they can in the meantime, you know, it's like it's this constant stream, you know, of victims for them, you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

A hundred percent, yes. And so your father met um this guy, this military uh official. How exactly did they meet?

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Do you know the exact I I have no idea actually? And to be honest, like I have a feeling that it might have been more on like periphery and stuff like that, too, just because a lot of my initial memories um that I had from uh this particular abuser, they didn't really start until I had gone through, you know, uh essentially what I would consider like like what some people consider like beta training or like your, you know, your child prostitute, your sex kitten training, essentially. I didn't, it's like there was like several years essentially of like preparatory training for me prior to like me, like meeting him. So as far as like knowing whether like they actually met or just met in periphery because they were both part of the same pedophile organization, I have no idea. You know, if I was just like picked out, you know, of like, you know, of like, you know, the other cult members that were having babies that year, you know, who knows like, you know, when it comes to that, like it's it's pure, it's pure speculation on my part, you know, other other than knowing, you know, that he was visiting the White House at the same time, you know, like um my perpetrator was, you know, um sergeant major of the army. So that's pretty much the highest position that you can that you can hold there. Um, but a lot of my initial memories, like I had been saying, you know, is was that my my beta trainer, the second trainer that I went to after leaving uh Washington, DC and moving to Texas, um, he he did a lot of like the interaction initially. So it was almost like my dad wasn't wasn't good enough essentially to to interact with like with the guy that I had been promised for. So I mean, on a certain level, like I do enjoy, you know, I do enjoy that because from most of like my dad's stuff, other than like you said, you know, it's just pure gratification of his own, you know, will and desires and stuff like that, you know, is you know, is in in regards to that, is uh, you know, him stroking his ego, which is pretty much, you know, like if I were to look at most of my abuse from why it occurred from my dad's end, you know, other than, you know, like I said, the sexual gratification for his psychopathic needs, like it was really about like I was just like um like an opportunity, any any instance he could use to like brush shoulders with someone like more powerful and then vicariously feel like powerful because of it. Like that was like that was like my my whole childhood, basically. You know, he always needed to feel more important, essentially. And a lot of it, you know, even from my birth, like I said, it seemed like it was even what he did have was more based off of off of the fact that he was allowed, allowing people, a lot of people to like sexually use his daughter more than it was based off of, you know, his stuff. He did, you know, when he was working with with Reagan, it was because of his like skills with like, you know, his particular field. But another thing that I enjoy is that, you know, he he was always pissed off during my childhood that um that they never mentioned him, his higher up essentially got recognition by name. So um another thing that like, you know, we take our little wins where we can get them because, you know, when we're dealing with psychopaths like this, you know, everyone like looks at them and is like, oh, they're they're like one of the best people in the family and they have all their stuff together and you know, they're just so nice. And they go to church every Sunday. So, you know, how could how could they do these things, you know? And it's like, yeah, that's that's the point. They do these things so that so that they can uh, you know, they do all these good things so that you know they can create a facade to do all you know these bad things behind and then create this plausible, you know, deniability and everything, um, which is what I experienced when I came out about my abuse, about like just just the incest, even about like my my dad and my uncle both who had abused me. Um yeah, so um one thing I wanted to mention a little bit, I guess, just because I I brought it up already, is just so that people can understand, you know, just a survivor's perspective on uh the dissociation and like the um like the alters or parts and the splitting and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Um I just you do an excellent job at breaking this down. So thank you so much for talking about it. This is this is one of the hardest things, I think, for people on the other end to just grasp. You can hear it and comprehend it, but when you had told me what you're gonna share um on the phone recently, you know, it it clicked a lot of things in my mind. And I know it's gonna do that to people listening. So go ahead, girl.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Awesome. Thank you. Um yeah, so so that's the one thing that I I like to clarify with people, and I I think it helped it's helpful to survivors as well, as as in addition to you know, people that don't personally have the experience of, you know, being really traumatized and then having dissociative like you know, parts to themselves, you know. Um, and that's just basically that, you know, from my understanding that really helped me was that, you know, nowadays, like the understanding is gotten a lot further away from that kind of like multi-personality disorder, Hollywood style, you know, like um, I was gonna say, like, like one person that goes through some overwhelming event and then they just like boo, you know, just split into a million pieces or something. You know, like that's a lot of times how how people interpret it is that you've had like you have one thing that's whole that has become that has become multiple. On a certain level, that's true, but on a certain level, it's really not because how the understanding is nowadays is that, you know, dissociation more than anything else is a developmental disorder. And it's because of, you know, having like inconsistent and abusive, you know, severely abusive like caregivers. So we all start off as, you know, infants that have multiple personality states, you know, we have one for, you know, I'm hungry, I'm sad, I'm tired, you know, the infant can go like instantly from one to another and like, you know, and for completely forget, you know, the the last thing, essentially. So essentially, like how it was explained to me by, you know, by therapists and stuff, you know, was that is that we all start off multiple and it's our, you know, so we have we're multiple and we have like our consistent caregiver that risk by responding to our needs consistently kind of kind of helps us, you know, learn how to shift from one thing to another, you know, and then we kind of slowly as we develop and get older, you know, we merge these all into like a cohesive personality, basically. So if we're still in the developmental phase and all of a sudden, you know, like sometimes we'll have, you know, a very inconsistent like environment or caregiver or something, we'll go from having our needs met, you know, as as you know, infants, toddlers, babies or whatever, to all of a sudden a caregiver that you have to rely on your needs for is dangerous and you have to run away from, you know, so you have that like that mixed feeling. So what ends up happening, you know, is that caregiver turning from a trusted person to someone who's essentially hurting you, betraying you, is like you're afraid for your life with that essentially creates a dissociative split because for a normal child, like they would never be able to continue to develop normally in a house if they were constantly aware that that person could turn at any moment. You know, it's that that child would just not survive or would become psychotic, essentially, you know, dissociation is like a step, it was essentially what prevents us, you know, as survivors from becoming psychotic, you know, is you know, is our dissociative disorder. So what ends up happening is, you know, there will be a little, most of you will not be conscious of the overwhelming event, and a small part of you will be, and that little part of you will essentially be, you know, almost like born in that moment of trauma. In that moment of overwhelming trauma, it's gonna be switched from your normal state to this new state, basically. And in that new state, that that moment is your birth. So whatever traumatic event is happening, that is your whole world. And then once that traumatic event is over and things are normal, it's almost like it's like a little compartment. And that's why I like using parts most of the time. So it feels like a shortened shorthand for me of compartment, you know, it's like it's little compartmentalized parts of ourself, you know, that have just like been shut off, you know, from from the rest of our consciousness. And, you know, and for that little part, you know, and that's why the trauma, that's why the PTSD, and that's, you know, all the triggers and and everything for that little part, you know, it was it was born in that moment, that's its whole reality is abuse, you know, and then once, and then it's over, you know, and you'll get sometimes what people consider fragments, you know, which is sometimes like individual instances of abuse, you know, like and like you'll have like little, these like little kind of PTSD things that you deal with, you know. Um, and then you'll also deal with, you know, what I consider, you know, like parts or alters, which are in in, you know, how I understand it, is essentially when the particular abuse that created this compartment is repeated, that same compartment is opened up in your brain to like handle the abuse a second time or a third time or a fourth time or a fifth time. And then a lot of times, you know, that that as often as that part needs to come out and be conscious, in my experience, you know, is like in what survivors call, you know, the internal world, we have a very vivid, you know, internal landscape, you know, where typically we can see, you know, the way different parts look or lit in like different areas that they live, you know, or sometimes for like people who are mind control survivors like myself, we have um our uh like a specifically structured, you know, um like uh like kind of structure for the compartments, essentially, the one that the users have intentionally created and are aware of so that they can, you know, then call out those different parts and have some control, essentially. Um, but regardless, any part we're talking about, you know, is just like a little trauma, like is essentially just a traumatized child, you know, is like how I like to how I like to say it, you know, and the traumatized children that parts of yourself that have, you know, been reabused, you know, and come out to deal with a particular abuse. For example, you know, I would have one part, you know, to come out to deal with just abuse with my father, and then another part that would come out to deal with like a trafficking situation where it's like I would be, you know, expected to sexually service multiple men at a time or something like that, you know, like there is there's different, you know, different parts that have different roles. And it usually to me, on how I understand it depends on the trauma, you know, is like because that's that's the whole reason they're created is to hold that trauma, but then also to like when that trauma is forced upon us again, you know, to then, you know, to then come out to handle it, you know, and then and then, you know, hold it some more, basically. So, so those parts tend, in my opinion, to be a lot more like fleshed out, you know, tend to not be fragments, but actually have like what are, you know, more tip people typically understand, you know, different genders. Sometimes they're not even human, you know, or they're different ages, you know, all kinds of stuff, you know. And really that's because, you know, we're dealing with like parts of yourself that are blocked off when you're in a young developmental stage. And at that time, you know, our imagination plays a big role in things, you know. So we'll imagine ourselves at those times to be essentially what we feel like we need to be to uh handle the abuse. So that's why you'll get some to some people, they're like, how can you have a demon altar or have, you know, like a dog altar or all this different stuff? And it's like, well, there's a lot of programming to reinforce that sometimes intentionally, but also sometimes it's just what the mind of a kid does, you know, to just try and cope, you know, and that's and that's what you get, you know. Um so uh one thing, you know, that that I would say, you know, is when it comes to that, you know, and that's a lot of what I think, you know, is what to me is I guess gives some shape to my story and the abuse, you know, is understanding, you know, like how the dissociation works, you know, and that we you have these different these different altars, you know, that are created and are gonna be naturally created if you even just have like an ancestral situation or neglect or you know, other like really severe abuse as a kid. And then you're going to have what some people consider, you know, not just DD DID, but D D N OS, which is where a DID system is essentially picked up by abusers that have knowledge of the developmental ages and when to do different abuses and what abuses to do, to intentionally create these parts, you know, at different times of their lives, you know, so that there can be some control by the abusers on, you know, what parts they call out for different skills, you know. But then also most of it is about this, is this never happening?

unknown 44:43

No.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Most of it is about, is about silence, secrecy. So you have you have these backup systems and a lot of times with DDNOS, you know, with this this more controlled and structured version of DID. You have backup systems on top of backup systems of different parts that have been created through trauma, you know, through different abuse events that are, you know, all about creating an internal system of intimidation and, you know, essentially reinforcing all of their messaging and everything. So that was very much my experience is that, you know, I started off, you know, in my original place of birth, you know, with like a very, you know, standard DID structure, you know, with like, you know, a few splits to deal with like my normal family life, which was most of my life, you know, and then, you know, parts to deal with my dad when he was sexually abusive, or at that point someone else when they're sexually abusive, essentially. So once I got to once we moved to Texas, you know, they were both in the military and got stationed there, um, all hell broke. And uh I met, you know, what essentially I tend to call like the beta trainer. You know, he was um always seen as just like a friend of my dad, a family friend of my dad, also a military medical field. But he had a daughter that was a couple of years older than me who had been essentially being groomed as a child prostitute long before I had gotten there. And when I got there, I essentially was um handed over to him, sometimes abused by both my dad and and this guy. And sometimes it was just uh it was just him, you know, essentially but he essentially is the one that took the abuse from being something that was just kind of like random and incidental, you know, to my dad's urges, you know, into something that felt like it was very systemate ties, you know, almost like I was a, you know, a another like piece of meat on a conveyor belt, you know, that there had been many girls before me and boys, you know, that had had gone through this stuff and there would be many after, you know, and that's part of like why, you know, this situation, you know, is so fucked up and so overwhelming and stuff is just to know that, you know, it what I felt like I stepped into at that point was was completely organized. You know, like there was no, there there was never, there never seemed to be like any guesswork, anything like that. You know, it was always the mode that like my dad was essentially what some people would call like you know my handler, you know, but that, you know, it he was he was just essentially following orders, you know, of higher ups as far as like how to take the abuse to the next level and then essentially how to start, you know, trafficking me, you know, with with this, with this other guy.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

And this other guy is the guy that he met in Washington that's high up in the military. Is that the same word? No. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

So he is the in-between. So so this, so we moved when I was about um about three or so, three, three and a half. Um and I did not meet I personally have like did not meet, you know, the as far as I remember, you know, that's hard when you're dealing with like dissociative gaps and stuff. Um but my first meeting with uh the with um the person that like I was supposed to call master eventually was like um probably closer it was like five essentially um it was like it was right before I was gonna start school. So um there was like essentially like you know like a year and a half there or so that like I was going through essentially all of my abuse with um who like this uh the beta trainer who like for to shorten things you know I'm gonna call him Schmuel and um he's uh he's basically uh like yeah he was he was a medical field as well you know most of the people that abused me you know were military or medical or or both you know essentially um other than some family members that you know that uh got in on the game I guess you know um but uh yeah so yeah so Schmuel was like was essentially like he had a narcissistic wife um you know and then his daughter was essentially at the point where it's it's hard to say when you're dealing with someone who's like eight or nine, you know, but the way she acted she was already you know like a cut from his cloth you know and I it's hard to see how that wouldn't be the case when you know you had a narcissistic mom, a psychopathic dad and you know and she had been obviously going through the same stuff I had been you know from from birth essentially like so there were a lot of instances where where uh you know Schmuel would bring his daughter around and we're just gonna call her Susie for um for the podcast sake um he would bring susie around a lot to essentially when he would be doing a training session with me he would bring her around to like role model the behavior that he was looking for you know so initially a lot of it was child pornography and trafficking related so it was um it was things about you know just learning to just how to perform sexually in general or to have that persona of being seductive and stuff like that, you know um and a lot of it was uh you know was essentially like reinforcing like when it's like she would do something right, you know, like what the right reactions were you know like as far as like you know like not complaining or just different things like that. They a lot of times used like other kids like to essentially make examples of, you know, uh in my experience a lot, you know so um you know so there was even times where it's like you know she was forced just to you know abuse me on camera you know with no adults involved you know and it's you know it's insane to know that you can get you know kids to the point you know where they can where they can do that you know but that was very much my experiences by being with this guy is that we essentially um you know that that I essentially you know kind of just picked up the role of of child prostitute you know and that a lot of like the initial training was you know was essentially creating someone that outwardly you know like would look like they were enjoying their situation you know and that's a lot of like what's really fucked up about it is that you were you know that it was just constant you know abuse and then like also like really fucked up positive reinforcement when you would do the things the way the way that they wanted you know and what they wanted you know was someone that would like perform sexually you know so for example like one of my first um my first uh memories of the blackmail machine essentially was uh being taken to an apartment that I had been abused in multiple times um trafficking wise and there being a Schmuel there waiting and then uh uh three other like young young military guys you know they're probably like you know like 18, 19 or something like that, you know? And it essentially being you know at at that point like it was like uh there was like a big show you know when things like you know especially with things were going to be like filmed or something that like you know like on like you know props or looks of stuff you know so being dressed up in like a like a ridiculously frilly like pink dress and everything and like and all this different you know different stuff about being like you know like a party for me and everything like that. And then it like almost like you know just like any pornography you know kind of progressing you know to the to the abuse part of things you know and it was you know for that you know essentially like being forced to like like orally rape you know like like three different guys essentially you know and and a lot of it I think too is like it's both training for me you know it's like that's the thing like when it comes to like the trauma stuff you know like that's part of it you know is you're just they're they're gonna put be putting you through a lot you know just to like reinforce like you know the the trauma and the dissociation but there's also you know they're other ulterior motives you know what I mean and when I see those three guys on the couch I just assume that that's like where my dad was you know like when he was 18 or something you know that you know it was you know that the that you know this pedophile organization they just you know they they have their eye out you know for other psychopaths that you know and when situations like this there was also an air of you know it's when you get multi multiple guys together you know that it's like the peer pressure and then just like just ever you know just all the stuff you know kind of like together basically that you know but but for me you know like understanding like the different the different parts you know like that was you know for example that time you know it's like initially there was some because it was the first time I had you know had to perform with like multiple guys like there was some like resistance and everything like that you know and it's like you know it's like you just you get taken to the to like the next room you know and threatened and smacked around some until like you know and then like and also kind of like triggered you know too basically because it was it was the sexual part based on my dad you know that they needed to call out so it's like you know it was my dad essentially putting me in a situation that was triggering that part you know to come out you know until there was like a certain level of like you know there was an understanding there was a switch and agreement there on how I was going to behave you know but I mean that part in particular like you know it's like you know was trained to like not have a gag reflex or something like that for example you know and that was like part of you know uh just like part of all of it you know so it's like knowing that it's like like you're saying it's like that they'll have to like that they'll go through so much shit just to like make you know what I mean it's like you could just go into the bathroom and jack off like why like why all of this just to to make you know the perfect sex slave the perfect well you know it's it's fucked up like it's it's really crazy.

SPEAKER_02 55:06

It is and like you were saying like training it's like they give you practice to get better at it.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

And it's like they treat it like a sport almost like they're training you for like a big game you know and like practice these like horrific things over and over and over and over again to perfect them you know and it is it's so sick and it's so hard for you know me and and I'm sure you and everybody like how do you even wrap your mind around what goes through their head doing this you know yeah yeah and that's like really where I keep coming back to like what you said in the beginning like you know their strengths you know strengths are exploited you know and that's like that's really you know what that's really what it is you know like and and it is really crazy just to know how much you know I don't know how much they'll go through the thing is though too is really understand that there's more benefit you know than just creating those sex slaves you know it is like it is the money side of things that people just have to understand you know it's like drugs, arms, all that stuff you can only sell once, you know, but kids you can sell over and humans you know you can sell over and over and over again. So why that wouldn't be the main thing to find black market things to me like why that's so hard for people to wrap their heads around to me is just like like why you know it's like it's it when you're dealing with psychopaths that have zero empathy you know they'll do this with their own you know with literally their own kids like what what holds them back from doing anything really you know so and that's that's hard for people to really understand if they've never been around someone like that in their life. I bet you they have but they haven't been aware of it you know but if they've never been abused by someone like that you know in their life you know it's it's it's pretty it's pretty crazy you know um yeah so so actually like I um and in regards to the trauma kind of stuff you know like that's one thing I did kind of skip over if we want to bring up the uh um the uh paintings actually so for the Texas ritual because actually um I I started getting into the trafficking side of things but actually my first my first like big experience was really um a a trafficking instance where I was brought to um like a a hunting lodge outside of uh outside of uh the town we lived in in Texas and was fairly far outside kind of like hilly type country and everything like that a little bit of like foresty type stuff around it um but essentially it was um one of my early my one of my early um sorry um one of my like well my earliest trafficking memory that I have essentially was that you know we were hired it seems like to come play to come play a role and I think a lot of it too is part of you know is this programming kind of side of things is that you know they're they want to get you with as much of like the most fucked up stuff early on because that's the things that really like lays the groundwork. It's like for those parts to then be you know further manipulated later on you know so um so like this right here is just like a scene of kind of like what I had walked in what I had walked in on. I was taken uh by a schmuel and my dad, you know, uh a little far outside outside of town to like kind of like a a really ritzy hunting lodge essentially um it had like one thing I like to let people know is that like it it seemed like it was like vacation home. I was told there was a vacation home for like a politician but I don't remember like who and that uh but that full time there lived a doctor essentially who would do doctor things for uh for the cult essentially on the down low. He was a retired doctor but that's one of the main things I had remembered is that I had been brought to um the hunting lodge and essentially abused by um the guy who the guy who lived there that was like one of the main things that um my dad was you know like proud about you know and had bragged about you know was that essentially we were invited there early before the ritual to you know to for a trafficking instance you know for me to essentially be abused um by um someone important uh you know so that's something that my dad loved and uh um it was you know me me being taken to be abused by him like in this you know in this you know ritzy living room with all the all the taxidermy stuff um off in the little doorway you can see his little uh granddaughter that's like there waiting and like looking she's gonna be there later in the abuse event as well um and uh when he left me to get abused by by this man he essentially was taken off or the two of them were went off because they were medical to go uh tour the medical facilities there so there was a couple outbuildings where you know I I don't know what you know happened but I would assume you know things like abortions or different stuff like that you know that's pure speculation on my part but it's like it was it was crazy it was like a private you know middle of nowhere like surgical facility like it's it's it's fucked up you know but that's also why like people sometimes people have a hard time believing it's like oh how could people go through these things or do these things and it's like when you understand like that you're dealing with psychopaths that have like a lot of money and resources you know it's not that hard to keep a lot of things hidden you know it's and it's really hard for like people to comprehend you know if you haven't been on the inside of things but it's like yeah it's like the like the number of things like the number of fixes they that they have for problems that we would think you know is just it's just infinite and the because they all work together you know too so to to help each other out in that regard. Um and let me know there are some motorcycles go ahead no it's okay let me know too when you want me to flip because I know that there's three photo or three uh drawings in yeah so so we can go ahead and flip to the next photo um so essentially you know after after abuse event uh the the little um granddaughter like I was I was taken off uh she just kind of went to show me around she was like a year a couple years older than me um and uh she just went to kind of like show me around the property the stables and everything and then like early on essentially like because the whole time we were out at the lodge there was really no one there other than myself my dad you know and the the people that seemed like they lived there. But you know it was essentially being brought and this is kind of like the why I wanted to go over this with people is just to kind of like set the scenes some so that people understand you know like how much goes into these fucked up things you know that happen you know and really like how widespread this has to be because it's like I mean these are like like I joke when I call them catered events, you know, but it's like when it comes when you think about the amount of like prep work that has to happen for all of these things, you know, and this like ritual space which and woods you know which what we're looking at here is essentially you know like in the surrounding woods of the place you know is that this is an area where they had rituals often, you know, a lot of times like permanently maybe like for a long time because there were like you know set paths and clearings and stuff like that. So where we're at now is essentially looking at um that there were um there were uh a couple older women um that were related to the to the man of the house you know that were uh cult related in uh in black robes that were that essentially took took us me and two other kids that had arrived one of them was the little girl that had been showing me around and then the other one um his name is Simon that was the first time that I met him as well I would be going to school with him later on and he would also be part of like the mind control program um and everything later on um but uh he also had pedophile dad uh who abused him and everything so it was essentially us being taken by these by these two women in black robes you know it was still daylight you know off down like you know a very large you know path in the woods and there was kind of these side paths and some of them would lead to you know clearings essentially and we were brought to a clearing to essentially get ready you know they like someone came and brought us um like a chest you know with the robes in it for the other two for me and the other two kids essentially and you know it was us you know being told to get dressed you know and to but to keep fairly quiet but we were still allowed to like you know that's us there is playing sword fight with our stick with our sticks pretty much you know because we're kids you know we were just pretty much like killing time essentially you know like we didn't really know you know none of us knew I don't think you know except for the little girl that's like sitting off to the side because like she like I said was like related to the cult so I'm pretty sure she was aware you know of like what was going to be going on she like wasn't wasn't running around and having fun like uh with myself and Simon. So uh um and that is that is a fake name you know just so you know you don't have to change that one uh for him as well um but essentially you know we spent a lot of time you know just killing until night fell you know and then it's like once once it did you know off in the upper right hand corner that's kind of what you see there is like people in like black robes that we saw off down the path on the main path that had been essentially like filtering through to go to the ritual space basically um the person on the last one was like a person in a wheelchair actually that I remembered like being like in row like it's almost absurd you know to think of like you know someone that's like in black robes and then in a wheelchair you know but you know that's that's part of the thing that's what I'm dealing with you know so um so essentially you know ritual space you know gets set up you know darkness falls torches lit and everything um and then uh the we're brought from our clearing to another one where essentially the dads had all been getting ready and it was kind of the same situation where like her the little girl's dad was like very um somber and not excited you know seeming but you know like my dad and Simon's dad were you know it was like they were at a party um and they were all dressed they had all been dressed you know in robes as well theirs were white though. But yeah it was basically like they were you know they were they were joking you know like it was like like it was a good old time and everything. Um and then later on we were led led down the path you know so it was essentially three fathers three children um that were all like around like you know like like between the ages of like four and six essentially um And uh we were, you know, we were brought to the uh um brought to like the main clearing. And that's like one thing that I like to like ground people is, you know, it had all the typical stuff, you know, people standing around to watch in black robes, uh, a bonfire in the middle. If you want to go ahead and um switch the next uh thing that's kind of I think that's the last one. Yeah, there we go. Um big bonfire, you know, the altar in the middle. Um, and that's one thing I like to let people know is like like this altar, it's like, you know, it was made by someone, you know, uh a stone you who makes gravestones or something. Like the amount of money and time that went into this big ass like altar, it wasn't it wasn't going anywhere. So to me, it's just it's all these little details to me that are just like indicative that this is like a big problem. And it has been a problem for a while, and it had probably hasn't like gone away anytime soon, you know, is like these these are very like set up spaces and used more than once, you know. Um so uh the one thing I forgot to point out from the previous one, but you don't have to go back, you know, was just that, you know, that uh one of the women, you know, had been holding uh in upper left-hand corner, the older one had been holding a baby essentially the the whole time. Uh so uh this ritual was going to include um sacrifice. So that's why we gave the track the trigger warning, you know, is that that you know, when it comes to the ritual type stuff, it's it involves a lot of really fucked up stuff. And um, if it's too much for someone for where they're at in their healing, you know, it's not a problem to like, you know, like I've done that many times to be like, I'll come back to this at another time. So I'll I'll just say that. Um, but essentially, you know, like uh everyone was given roles, you know, the uh the little girl um had to had to sacrifice on the altar a a chicken, essentially. Like everyone, it was the same situation where the knife is put in the little kid's hand, you know, and there's you know, there's words and chanting and stuff. Um, but the you know, the father is obviously the one that has like has can has their hands over and control over the knife, you know, for for all of these instances and everything. So, you know, so for this one, you know, is the little girl was there, you know, to to essentially sacrifice, you know, the chicken. The uh Simon was and his father were there to sacrifice the goat. Um, and then myself and my dad were there, and that was part of like what he had always like found special and bragged about, you know, was that that we were chosen for like, you know, like the like most special spot, which was to essentially be the one to sacrifice the baby. And that's a lot of why, you know, why I'm like I said, like I'm here doing this is because knowing like as hard as I had it, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of, you know, innocents out there that have had it a lot worse, you know? And with this in particular, you know, is that like, you know, it as bad as my trauma is being up close and personal for this, it's just like, I mean, how like how can you you not like your heart not break, you know, when you think about like, you know, a just a little innocent being like going through something like this, you know? But essentially, you know, like he like uh he uh castrated him um and then cut open his stomach, so disemboweled him, you know, and then uh stabbed him in the heart before uh pushing him, you know, off the off the altar and into the fire. That's what they had done with each thing. Um sorry, with with each um victim. And uh, you know, so I mean I don't it's hard to say, you know, how can you get more fucked up, you know, than that, you know, and just to just to know that this is something that wasn't a one-time instance, you know, it's just just some, it's just something else, you know, and that that's a lot of like what what you know the trauma is in dealing with these memories and why I think it's so hard for and takes so long for people to heal that have gone through not just sexual abuse, you know, not just you know, like trafficking and stuff, but when you start dealing with like the ritual memories, you know, it's for some people it's like it's like how do you even wrap your head around that kind of that kind of act if you don't have any like context for it, you know? And for me, that's one thing I've always tried to point out to people is that you know, we can get, we can look at these scenes and get very like, you know, especially nowadays with how like everyone's every everything's always like ritual everything, it seems like, you know, that is like it's very glorified, you know, and and so it's like people can see these scenes, you know, and not understand, you know, that there's like that there was actual there was actual suffering, you know, that that went on and everything. Like, I don't know. It's it's it's something that like, you know, if like I said, if you haven't been, if you haven't been there and partied to it, it's it's hard to, it's hard to believe that that it exists, really, you know, but it's something that like, you know, it I don't like to like get specific about like what cult they were part of, because to be honest, I don't know. And I don't think it really matters, like when we're talking about these kinds of subjects, because when it comes down to it, you know, you're gonna deal with cults, you know, that were more based off of more druidic stuff, based off of more Luciferian stuff, based off of you know, fertility cult type stuff, or completely secular and just based off of, you know, some like like Nazi, like, you know, like new world order cosplay bullshit, you know what I mean? Like it could be, it could be any of them. When it comes down to it, it's still it's still the same psychopaths and it's still satisfying the same needs, you know, that they have, you know, which is just, you know, they they just get off on destruction, you know, and the more of it, the better. And the most disruption you can cause, you know, is is of innocence, you know, like when it comes down to it. Um so uh I'm gonna take a quick pause for water. Do you have any uh any questions for me at this point?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:16

Well, I just want to comment and say, first of all, thank you for sharing that and for sharing these these graphics that you made. You know, it adds a different dynamic, I think, than just hearing it. And it's like the way that that you painted it, you know, it's like you can almost see it through a child's eye. You know, it's it's like the the details are kind of blurred out, like how a child wouldn't be able to put context to what they see. You see the colors and you kind of see, you know, you can make out what everything is, but you you can't see the eyes, you know, you can't see exactly what's in the fire, but you can just feel this like dark energy and just you know, not having um the context to what you're seeing, besides just how crazy it does look. And you're so right about that, you know, there is such a disconnect with society. And I think also to piggyback off some of the things that you said that contribute to it, you know, horror films in general are a whole genre of movie. Like people will go make a horror film number one at the box office and watch it for entertainment, not understanding that it's not fiction, that just because the movie labels it as fiction, it's literally created off the ideas that these people do in real life, you know, and it's like they desensitize society to even like look at those things because of the whole, you know, neurolinguistic part of it, where we're told that this stuff is fiction and it's beat into our mind from the time that we're little. You know, it's given an R-rating, so it's like you kind of get excited to see R-rated stuff as a kid. It's like the kid version of turning 21, whenever you can watch a scary movie at age 13, you know, or whatever age it is. And, you know, it it's it's really sad that people look the other way with this because it is happening all over every country, every community, every city, every town, every state, you know, everywhere. And people have no idea because of how they've been desensitized to it, how it's been normalized in a fictional standpoint, and how anybody who tries to say it's true, they're just gaslit, you know, there's credibility given to this, and it's just absolutely heartbreaking, you know, and to just think about children going through this, and you know, the fact that even describing it as a party, like it makes me want to like it makes me want to gag, you know, thinking I think you mentioned they have like every one of these rituals that I've been part of have always been combined with a party for sure. And you're in your meaning, I think you had mentioned like a cocktail party, for example, before that. Like, how sick that they're it's like watching a football game, like they're getting ready to watch the Super Bowl. Like, let's eat food and party and have cocktails and get drunk and then network, you know, just hang out. And then the details too, like understanding that there's like a stonemason hired to like, and that stuff is not cheap to hire, like some, you know, like how you said. So it's like even that deliberation, it's like it is really hard to wrap your mind around it. But like you said, when you understand that that they have to hide it and that this is literally like what they get off to, like, this is what they live for. This is yeah, they do, you know, this is like their social time, this is what they look forward to. They put the same effort into something like this that somebody else would into a birthday party or a super world party or a wedding, you know, it's like that much detail goes into it.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:44

What they get excited about, you know. My what I what I always use to describe to people, you know, who have a hard time, you know, just like in my daily life, wrapping their head around like a psychopath or something like that is just um oh my gosh, I just lost my train of thought. Sorry. Uh oh man. Sorry. It happens it happens from time to time. Um, but yeah, though the main thing, the main thing for me, like when it comes to people like visualizing like a psychopath, like for me is like I I've always talked about like, you know, like people can understand like like the gay thing nowadays, like really easily, you know. Like I'm bisexual myself. So I have, you know, I have I love everyone for who they are. But like when it comes like down to it, it's like for a while there people had like like, oh, like gay is a choice, you know what I mean? Like gays, gay is like gay is like a choice, you know. And it was like, well, like you say you're straight. Like, could you like choose to get your dick hard? Sorry to be vulgar, you know, for the opposite sex. It's like, no, you know, and that's like the thing that I have, like, like to really to illustrate to people, you know, is like because people, I think when they think about pedophilia nowadays, they think about like it as something that's like, oh, you know, I've heard it so many times in like truth pod truther podcasts, especially, you know, oh, you know, just what happens when you get super rich, you know, it's just what happens, like when you've just tried so many things, eventually that's just what you try, you know. And I was like, like, how much money would I have to give you for you to get your dick hard in front of a five crying five-year-old? You know, it's like it's not gonna it's like it's not gonna happen. Like that's like that's that's the the complete disconnect, you know, like that people that people don't have or don't understand, you know, is that like that there's, you know, it's it's a level of understanding they're never gonna have. And they should be glad that they're never gonna have that level, you know, this uh this this idea that people have to like, oh, but but why do they do the programming? Why do they do the traffic? Why do they do all this stuff, you know, other than the secrecy and shit like that? It's because, you know, it's an urge that that you will never understand. And you should be glad about that, you know, and just just you know, just understand that it does exist though, and and and try and do something about it. And and for those people, like you said, it's like the you know, the rituals, you know, those are the things that they look that they that they look forward to. It's their time to be exactly who they want to be and be like, and and things that would normally in society that they would be looked down on, they get praised for, you know, like I I was in, you know, an alcoholic, you know, for like six years, you know, like in college and everything, just once I left the house, just trying to like understand and deal with all like my PTSD symptoms and just like, you know, just going into self-destruct mode and everything. And when it comes down to it, you know, like when I was in my alcoholic phase, do you think I wanted to hang around sober people? Fuck no. No, because like I couldn't, I couldn't like I couldn't relax and drink and get fucked up, you know, in the crazy antics that I wanted to do, you know, like if I was around a bunch of square, straight people, you know what I mean? Like it's no fun, not even a little bit. So I would live for the times, for the times where, you know, it was, you know, like Thursday night, and there's this thing going on, you know, any night of the week, you know, that you could find something to go, like there's something going on where you could go and feel like my drinking habit was normal. You know what I mean? And like I could just do what I wanted to do, which was just like drown out the pain, just get obliterated, you know, like and not feel guilty about that fact, you know. So, so really, you know, that's what people have to visualize is these people are addicted to pain, suffering, you know, like also they are typically also addicted to, you know, drugs and alcohol and all that stuff as well, you know, but they're they're addicted to these things, you know, and they're, you know, so it's not so strange to think that like psychopaths might network with each other, you know. Like we're talking for me, like you said, I'm young for a survivor, but still like these events that we're talking about happened, you know, early 90s, you know, like and it's it's like this is before the internet. This is what so obviously there was still a good amount of networking going on. I can't even imagine how it is nowadays. But it's like, but really, you know, they're they're gonna find each other, you know, because they all they like doing the same things. They are they have no like attachment a lot of times to their own kids or different things. So that's part of why they're perfect for both being targeted by other psychopaths and other abusers and trading that content or those kids. But then also, you know, for like more organized like programs, like you know, like we'll get into that, are more into uh, you know, uh creating, you know, very intentional dissociative splits and stuff like that. It's you know, you're you need you need the right participants for that, you know, you can't just take it and do it with anyone, you know, and some you need someone that has that dissociative background, you need all that stuff. And that's that's why, you know, that's that's where where this comes from. And I have a feeling too, like they're constantly, you know, there's uh there was always an era of like testing, you know, that was always apparent for me, like from the very beginning, where it was always about, you know, like putting you the through a situation, seeing, you know, how how you reacted and stuff like that. That was a lot of like what my um, you know, the uh the man I was like meant for, essentially, like that was a lot of like what, you know, strengths exploited, you know. That was a lot of like what he what you know he was, you know, always so proud of. Same with my dad, you know, that it's like that there were all these tests I had essentially pass, you know, which was essentially just like being able to survive and dissociate from really horrible like traumatic events, you know. So um, but uh yeah, so and and for me, like like I had mentioned, like this really was like the entry into like like full-on, you know, pedophile organization land. Like um, I had met uh Simon, like I said, and and his dad, who was just like my dad, you know, very psychopathic, like uh had met him, uh also military, you know, pretty much everyone involved is gonna be. Um, but he he uh we started going to school together and we both went to the same school. Um my teacher was uh was I'm pretty sure, you know, uh an enabler for the cult as well, um, just because like she is very weird. She like kind of she kind of followed me through first grade or kindergarten, first grade, and then second grade, and just always told, told everyone was because I was her favorite student or something, you know. But it was always super weird. But the thing is, is like I like I um I was my mom was sent off for training a lot um while I while we lived there in in uh Texas, sometimes for a month or several months at a time, you know, and during those times, like there was a lot of time where I was like, you know, part of like the gate program and she would send me, you know, out of class for that, you know, or I was just you know out of school for just, you know, several days at a time for like, you know, these essentially trauma events like happening, you know, or trafficking events, depending on what the situation was. And um my mom, you know, was never aware of any of this stuff. So I I have a feeling, you know, that she that she maybe didn't report some absences or something, but it was also just the way she treated me. There's like I said, there's always this air around me, like that everyone was always constantly testing you, mostly for like intelligence and stuff like that, like just constantly putting you through, like, you know, different problem solving things, different, you know, um uh just kind of like any examples of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:41

Because I know like the gifted program, that's something that's been brought up a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:46

Do you have any examples that people could reference, you know, of what like type of tests and like things that they put you through, that'd probably be helpful.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:56

So no.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:59

And that's why it's hard. So, so there's like so a lot of the things that happen during uh the gate program stuff, like it's gonna be very mundane type things, you know, like especially initially, like it was stuff like literally, literally just, you know, things that you would probably see in a normal gate like thing, you know, it's just you know, working with like um, for example, like uh untangling knots or like spatial things, like a fitting things into like boxes or stuff like that. You know, a lot of it was essentially like about like it it seemed like a lot of it always was about trying to decide where people's attributes were and then kind of like, you know, or rather strengths, you know, were basically. Um so for me, like it was always like really like impressed upon me, you know, that it was, you know, it was my problem solving abilities that were like that was like, you know, what one of the main things that I was like sought after for. Um but uh I as far as like actual like um like testing events, like a lot of them are like not traumatic. So we wouldn't remember them like like anyway. But then when it comes to like the stuff that like was like me being taken outside of the classroom for that things, I think gate was just the pretext, you know what I mean? And you know, with like a lot of those memories, they're like they're essentially what I consider fragments, you know, like so small programs that are just there to essentially, I think, like reinforce like you know, the structure they've created and like you know, the um just like the trauma. So just putting you through a lot, I don't know how to describe it, like a lot of things um where it was almost uh, you know, it was being taken off site to a place that was more like, you know, like a bunker or underground storage facility type thing, and it being very uh um, why am I forgetting the name? Uh clockwork orange, you know, very, you know, sometimes there's a lot of drugging involved, you know, especially in the trafficking type of stuff, you know, like um, and a lot of like the different training things, there's a lot of times there's gonna be like like drugging involved, you know, either to sedate you or to create, you know, kind of like a suggestive hallucinogenic, you know, kind of effect, you know. So that's a lot of what's hard, you know, about like about this that whole kind of like suite of time essentially is that things are very fragmentary, things are very like, you know, there is a lot of like confusion of like things that were maybe being shown to me on screen and not necessarily in person, you know, slash some VR stuff, you know. So that's like also like where it's like there's like very like there are situations where it's it's very hard to like give context for because like there's you know, there's there's just um I don't know how to describe it. It's like the way that like information is being input into your brain is just so like overwhelming and just like different than normal reality that like it's really hard to like to to put words to and stuff. One of the like the main instances, you know, that I've that I've always uh brought up, you know, when it comes to this, you know, is uh and this was because I growing up, you know, I didn't have a whole lot of memories of my life, which is very common, you know, for DID people, you know, but there's there's certain things that really stuck out, you know, that were little things. And one of them was a gate trip where, you know, it was first grade. So it was a bunch, I was six, you know, and they sent a bunch of kids, you know, a full bus full of kids with just teachers, no parents or anything. Um, like outside, I think maybe like an hour and a half away or so to to Corpus Christi, basically to like a state-owned aquarium there. And, you know, the memory that I'd had the my whole life was just like was just a single flash of like, you know, us being allowed to all of us sleep underneath the shark tunnel, essentially, with all the light shining and everything and being able to see all the stuff. And it was all magical, you know, because of that. But, you know, dealing later on with flashbacks and stuff, you know, it was essentially coming. back as as another training memory, another testing memory, essentially, where um they they had been uh testing me for for and us for psychic abilities and stuff. And then it really sticks out to me because it was, as far as I can remember, the only test that I failed I put through and I failed essentially, you know, I couldn't, I couldn't do it because uh it was at a certain point they were like hurting my like my friend Simon in like the corner essentially that was like a lot of my memory was kids being taken out in twos after they've gone to bed, you know, to to another room that was essentially like an interrogation room and being asked questions and stuff. And they they were hurt, you know, they were hurting him and like and I think hoping that that was going to like you know like stress me out to the point where I was going to do it or something. But it really all it did was just stress. All it did was just stress me out. I just couldn't you know it's like I couldn't do whatever it was they were like and it's like I can't even remember what they were asking me because it's like the situation was like you know but it was just knowing that there was like there was like you know it was asking about things on paper, things on cars, things in different places, you know, and it's just like I, you know, it's it like I wasn't able to get to do whatever it was that they that they wanted me to do, you know. So it was, you know, it it was moving on you know from that. But they they used they used Simon a lot you know against me. And that's sometimes too where I wonder if it was like an occult thing too because his birthday was like one day off from mine, which is like super weird, you know, but maybe just a coincidence. But in any case, you know, a lot of like the him being around you know was essentially always saying you know it was just more stuff to reinforce that like I had a slightly higher position as a slave than he did. And that you know like so there was always this reinforcement that like you know and I think they probably focus a lot of that stuff on kids that they really want to be abusers, you know, is just this constant um this constant like reinforcing of um of messaging that it's like you're you're either an abuser or you're gonna get your your abused essentially you know so essentially it was just constantly being put in situations like where you know it felt like he was being made an example of you know to me you know like even an instance where it was like the cult trying to show you that they were all knowing. So they you know they set up a situation where he you know we weren't supposed to interact in school so like in non-cult settings we weren't supposed to interact but that was a lot of like he was always kind of trying to reach out to me and like I was always like you know my my programming was always good like like was always really strong you know so I was like I I always obeyed you know like so I pretty much was like I wouldn't have anything to do with him and then one day he brought me behind this is another memory I had always had brought me behind the the uh the desks and had like showed me his penis basically and I immediately was just like okay and then went and told the teacher but then later on you know and then she sent him to the principal's office and everything. But later on, you know, it was essentially being taken to like the like the bunker type facility again, you know, and essentially being like me being tortured with like um strapped to a chair like tortured like tortured by having my feet put in like hot and cold water and like you know there's a lot of times like it was pinpricks, you know, on like ribs and feet or or um shocks and stuff like that, you know um and he was like essentially on a table getting anally raped by his dad like behind me, you know, and essentially like the whole situation was was you know creating you know this feeling like that you know we had done something to not obey and they knew because they knew everything, you know, even though like I said I think the situation was set up for us to disobey so that they could put us through this situation. You know what I mean? And and essentially you know just letting us know you know that no point in talking or disobeying or doing any of that stuff you know we were being punished you know and that you know in the future they would always know you know if there was something that we did we weren't supposed to and stuff. So it's that you know it's it's you know being adult and going through that kind of situation, it's like what the fuck you know but try I mean that's really like why I bring it to people they're like you know why didn't you disclose till later so long or different stuff. It's like because when you understand like you know how overwhelming this stuff is just to heal with and deal on your own and then to tell people about it too you know it's like I mean it's well who can you stuff you would never even want to talk about you know yeah they make it so like anybody that you don't have anybody around you that you even can tell your teacher everybody around you is an abuser.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:52

So they also make it very hard for you to disclose not to mention you know all the programming like you said to keep you quiet. You know what's gonna happen if they find out like that fear that they instill in you of what could happen to you is horrific. Like adult like adults cave to that you know like that's how they keep all the adults in check too is through blackmail and through ways that they can manipulate them into staying quiet. You know kids don't have any context to that like they don't teach you again boundaries safe emotional relationships safe physical relationships like you don't have any concept of that that is like normal for you you know it's like of course you're gonna keep quiet.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:35

Why would you say anything when you're you know your best friend or somebody in your family or yourself could could have something so horrific as a consequence potentially yeah it's true and and I have to say there was one time like when I was really young like maybe like five or so that I I did attempt to try and tell my mom like what I was going through. But like I I barely started to get the words out and like when I saw like the look on her face of just like you know like horror you know what I mean it's like I immediately backpedaled because it's like for a kid to like have like you know it's like they tell you no one's gonna believe you and like and they're gonna you did something wrong and everyone's gonna abandon you and everything like that. And if like and it's like you're trusting to talk to like a mom who's like really loving but then it's essentially she was like my only like stable loving relationship in my life and seeing that look on her face it's like as a kid you just associate with yourself. You know what I mean? So it was just like I was just like dude I'm I am going to fuck up my one good relationship. So it's like I immediately, you know, as a kid I immediately you know was just like I was like oh just kidding you know I I was just you know I was just uh I just put some marker on like on the on a paper you know said it was blood it's not though you know and and like you know I was just pretending and different stuff you know all this stuff you know as a little kid to like backtrack you know and just like you know not have that look on her face anymore you know and and it's you know it's it's fucked up yeah um yeah so so a lot of you know a lot of this stuff you know that that we've been talking about you know I think was like very like preliminary things for for me to like be um meeting like who I was who I was meant for you know is like you know a lot of I think a lot of like even the trafficking was kind of like was kind of like functional as in like it was you know like yeah they make money off of it but I still think a lot more of it was just kind of creating the sex slave that they a particular brand of sex slave that they that they wanted you know because that's a lot of like what all of this stuff felt like is that it was it was testing it was training all stuff you know for you know kind of like preliminary crap you know and then once um it's like once I ended up meeting you know uh my call it um uh the person that was like you know meant to be like my master and I'm just gonna call him Smeagol so we have we have a schmuel and Schmeol and Schmeagel kind of like your owner huh he's almost like so um but in any case so so yeah so Smeagol you know I ended up meeting him uh it it was you know prior to this incidence we talked about with like with the Corpus Christie and um and uh uh Simon and everything in school it was it was just before I had started school but it was after I um had already started um experiencing a a lot of the trafficking like I said for like about a year and a half or so with the um with the uh the beta trainer schmuel you know so um you know and and that was that was a lot of different things you know sometimes that was also you know that also includes you know like gang rape and stuff like that you know that's one of like my main uh memories you know was was essentially you know uh it's it's crazy when you get memories back and you can hear like conversations because there's a lot of times where like like because of the drugging I couldn't really move any like couldn't really move much you know but could still like hear what was going on around me and everything. So it's like you know it's like in that in that instance basically you know it was essentially being being drugged you know and having you know it's like like four men and they were all like in still in like military like kind of like their underclothes or whatever. So it's like it that's like a lot of it's like I don't know if that was like intentional like for stuff like for the porn they were making you know or if it was just you know incidental or anything like that, you know. But um you know it's it's like that instance you know was essentially you know a lot of it was just the logistical stuff of like of child pornography, you know, like where they want someone to to finish you know or the the fact that the first guy essentially you know that they they weren't supposed to finish inside of me and the first guy did and then just the all hell broke loose you know and then they like had to go and clean me up and they just berating this guy who's like sobbing because he thinks he's like you know like in trouble and the their discussion you know about whether or not you know they would still be like fitting the bill if they just did the same film with three guys instead of four guys you know and everything like that and deciding that yeah that's that's gonna be okay you know and just just moving forward you know with things like it's like it's it's so like you know or you know my first trafficking memory even like with that you know also being being drugged you know with that one and sometimes it would be either something like in your Kool-Aid type of thing or like with the first time I was drugged it was actually being given an an injection because the the apartment that all these trafficking events happened at like was like right off of like a walkway and stuff. So you wouldn't want someone being like like too too loud basically so when I started to struggle it was like essentially being given like an injection but for for you know for that one that was one of the later ones it was literally just my dad being trained in how to produce his own child pornography you know so it was essentially um it was like essentially you know being told different like him my dad bringing his camera you know along with the other guy being told how to set things up you know how to like you know not have uh you know recognizable clothing or like bedding or anything like that you know different angles to do to not have like the perpetrator's face in and different things like that you know and to just like that's that's like a lot to me is like the things that it's like you know to be on like the inside and it's like everyone just thinks about this subject and they're just like child trafficking you know and they just like move on you know and it's like what it's like to really know that it's like how much time and effort and everything like that you know that these people like really really go into and spend their time on that and most people don't even want to think about it for like two for like two seconds. You know what I mean? Um but uh yeah I would I would love to get into like how I met um like how I met uh Smeagol you know the quote unquote master that I had been you know trained and kind of created for um but I'm gonna grab some water first if that's okay with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:28

Absolutely yes I appreciate you so much like you really do have a gift of breaking down hard things so they're palatable um and you you do a really beautiful job like kind of explaining it from a child's perspective to you which I think as an adult we forget how to do that sometimes you know even in our own memories we might you know recall them from where we're at now instead of where we were you know and that's that's such an important piece of understanding all of this is like we are so undereducated on you know trauma psychology and like how trauma actually affects affects us as adults but we're vastly undereducated on how this affects children you know and so being able to like see that innocence you know you look at that uh those drawings that you had last time like two like you're playing with your friend right before like something so horrific is gonna happen like just that pure innocence of like trying to trust your environment inherently you know and like people that you're around and just being a kid you know and and just seeing that like how they manipulate all of that and understanding what was going through your head you have a really you have a really beautiful gift of being able to kind of combine that so people can hopefully have empathy and like really be able to put themselves in the shoes of that child. And I think when we can do that that's when we really start to care.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:58

Yeah well thank you you're welcome I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:02

Well thanks for being here with the platform you know to do it and I didn't mean I know you're getting a drink but you can go ahead and talk about um how you met Schmeagel.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:11

Yeah kind of rolls off the tongue a little bit oh yeah so um yeah this piece of shit he's like in his 80s now so that's like I mean it and on it in my on like all honesty that's like part of like why I'm like you know I I had been planning on disclosing anyway you know because of all the reasons I had said initially you know survivor help and help for kids they're still part of this stuff and hopefully one day that the weight of our voices will still will achieve justice and everything. But that's also part of it too is it just it pisses me off when I have abusers that have been able to fucking pass away without ever like you know having anyone call them on their shit you know what I mean because they you know they're all of them just have this attitude that they that they're like hot shit and they're shit you know what I mean it's and it's so they think they're untouchable what was that they think they're untouchable for the because it's like you said they create networks to protect them they have lawyers networks doctors secret locations anybody that you know any amount of money or any position of power police officers ER doctors like they create the perfect network so they do get away with everything you know so it's it's disgusting yeah definitely I was pretty much gonna get into uh talking now about um uh the piece of shit who thought he could call me master for a lot of my life um basically uh and I have to usually I really need like to always preface you know like my interaction with him like with like people understanding you know like like our our first meeting like because that's a lot of like like what we had mentioned before is like understanding like all of these things like like the way these situations are set up you know it's kind of really sad that like it feels like you know like mainstream therapy is catching up to like understanding these like developmental ages and all these different things that it seems like on a certain level psychopaths have understood you know for for many years you know is like and really and really understood you know so uh so you know trauma bonding is like a huge a huge part of things you know is like it's not you always want this but you always want the Stockholm syndrome you don't want someone to be to be quiet just because they're afraid you know because then there's there's potential they won't be afraid you know one day it's always also that they're gonna be trying to create um can you hear me okay oh yeah that they're trying to create in in these people you know um parts of them that are modeled after the abusers themselves you know are essentially convinced that they're either like the abusers or the abusers themselves or in some way you know it's it's a protective mechanism on the inside. It's basically Stockholm syndrome you know where you're like I you know it's they they purposely put you in situations where it's like I would rather be allied with the abusers against unknown than you know it'd be me versus the abusers you know so there's a lot of this programming conditioning that's that's there um just to kind of create these almost like you know mental traps you know for the survivors to like you know we're even if the abusers aren't around we're gonna be internally reinforcing the same thoughts the same lies the same everything you know like even without you know the abusers being around sometimes for years at a time you know um so when it came to meeting this guy you know he um he was presented to me as my savior um even though he was the one that perpetrated probably other than my dad you know the most abuse on me during over the course of my lifetime um I was you know I was young I was you know I was five right before uh kindergarten essentially and I was given to by my dad to uh Schmuel the uh the beta trainer essentially um to take me outside of town somewhere um I was dressed all up and I which I had been used to be doing you know was getting dressed up in like some sort of outfit or costume and have been dressed in kind of a like a you know really frilly koofy white princess dress and then a little flower white flower crown in my hair and everything and was you know was apprehensive because you're aware that it's like going to be a trafficking event, you know, but didn't know like what what was to come just that you know I was just with schmuel only you know kind of driving you know towards um you know like some woods again like outside outside of town. And um essentially like once we got there, you know, there was a big show of him like you know driving off the main road and down a dirt road and then into like an like middle of nowhere where there were essentially six men in black robes that were waiting. And they were waiting to uh they made a big show of like essentially selling him selling me to them you know and making it seem like I was being sold to them and was not coming back you know so like the level of like you know creating all these circumstances to create this level like of terror essentially you know and then once you're handed over to these six men it was being told like led into the woods by them and being told that it was you know and I had already been to a sacrifice to a sacrifice ritual you know so being told by them you know that now I was going to be sacrificed that essentially they were going to summon demons that were going to uh essentially rape me and then kill and then eat me you know alive basically so you know so essentially it's being dragged out you know in into the the middle of the woods you know and then you know being being left told not to move and they all step back in a circle to do their chanting and everything like that. And um out of the woods you know from behind them come uh six demons basically so and these are these are um you know looking back on it with adult eyes you know obvious obviously just just people in like you know in suits essentially you know like kind of ghilly suits with all the stuff hanging off of them you know and in big scary like demon mask type type situations and everything. So you know but as a child you're like oh my God you know they just they just summon demons you know like here as part of this ritual to to like you know to like rape and kill me. And then and that's like what you know they did start you know pawing at you and everything and like ripping your dress and like you know and and like you know it's like when the terror is like essentially at like you know the worst all of a sudden out of the woods on a white horse comes you know Smeagol my you know my future master and he's dressed as like I said my savior he's he's riding a white horse um he's got you know the horse has like a more like you know silver type bridle and like little armor bit to make it seem like more like a little more unicorn esque you know and he's also dressed in you know the frilly white you know like like romance novel you know shirt and everything and and you know the breeches and a little sword that he draws to you know scare away the demons you know and and you know he makes a big show of essentially scaring away the demons and saving me and you know explains that you know I'm I'm the princess he's been looking for. A lot of like my my programming and the imagery and it's probably because of my particular abuser seems like a lot of it was built off of like um kind of like more medieval kind of stuff. You know some a lot of abusers have the more like satanic Luciferian type stuff but he was a little bit more like into more like the medieval druidic like play acting like knights and castles and all that, you know, more um I was gonna say more like Ku Klux Klan, you know, style of things, you know, basically. Uh so, you know, he he basically, you know, he tells me that he's he's my savior, he's I'm the princess he's been looking for to be his queen, you know, and then proceeds to rape me. You know, but in my mind, you know, as a kid, you know, you're like, well, you know, yeah, this sucks, but it's like way, it's like way less sucky than, you know, getting like gang raped and eaten alive, you know. So it's like it was really kind of like solidify is solidifying in my mind, you know, and then he discusses with the men in black robes that I'm his property and that I'm not allowed to be sacrificed and stuff. So there's a level of gratitude, you know, there on multiple levels, you know, that it's like I've I'm chosen by him, I'm saved by him, you know, and really, you know, this level of like you know the Stockholm Syndrome where it creates like a level of like almost like loyalty, you know, where you feel you know like you know you're part of the same cause or something, you know, with with them, you know. So that's a lot, you know, of what I had experienced initially with him. But that was by far like the nicest that he that he had ever been with me. Uh my abuser Meagle was uh he was he thought he was like the like the baddest motherfucker on earth. Like that's how most people like even like describe him like essentially his nickname was the snake you know so he like like and he was just like Vietnam like uh did a lot of bayonet training marksman stuff like that. So the way I like to describe like a lot of like what I went through after meeting him you know and once he kind of took up the training essentially for me was what some people consider in mind control terminology delta training which is training to be violent you know to be up to be essentially an abuser a perpetrator you know a killer different things depending on on your role um so for him you know his shtick was always you know about being hard cold badass you know a fucking a fucking killer you know it was it was always about training training training even when he was just like on his you know outward persona in the military basically and um but he was all about you know like I said uh like marksmanship um bayonet type stuff so what I like to describe to people is a lot of like my violence training that I went through was really just to satisfy his sick pleasures really because it's like there's just some people personality wise where like they're gonna want the the vapid blonde haired ditzy sex kitten or they're gonna want the poodle like a like I mentioned before the poodle on the leash you know they're gonna want they're gonna want that status symbol but it's like you know it's just luxury or just whatever. And then you're gonna have other people like dictators who they they want a tiger on the leash. They want they want something you know they they want those they they don't want just bodyguards you know they want like their fucking sex kitten bodyguards you know who are both gonna both because that's uh on a certain level for those particular breed of psychopaths that's something you know that that to them adds to their um delusional grandeur really I think you know that they're you know they're not just dominating something that's helpless they're dominating something you know that's dangerous you know and I think that that's like a lot of like my my personal stuff that I went through then from then on out was about you know was that you know it was a huge desire to create in me you know essentially uh an abuser a perpetrator like someone that was going to be doing a lot of violence essentially in service of you know in service of the cult and stuff and a lot of that a lot of that training for me was in the form of um being put in a kennel um and that's one thing that I hadn't mentioned before is that so like I'd mentioned like the the groundwork for like the parts that uh that Smeagol took up was created by Schmuel you know when I got to Texas with all the initial sex training. So Schmuel had essentially created you know a a a sex part that then you know like a a prostitute kind of part you know that then Smeagol was able to take up and was your you know your um mantearing candidate sex kitten you know assassin type thing you know so someone who's gonna be both sexual but is a little bit more sadistic and like able to like you know even though I I was never used for it you know I was at least trained in being able to like you know be able to like you know kill someone by you know slipping a something uh you know either poisoning or or stabbing like basically you know type so knife work you know which he was obsessed with because of his all his bayonet stuff basically so um so really uh a lot of the the violence kind of stuff was like you know was him creating these different like these different altars that were geared towards him you know so there was the sexual one there was also um uh a non-human altar that was based off of a dog for the beta training for the for just the pornography um and all of that training happened in a kennel that was outside of town it seemed like it was more of like a long-term boarding type facility and also had like a vet's office and stuff um but uh there were many times very initially early on when it was just the sex kitten training you know where I I feel fine saying sex kitten training because for me it was never cats it was always based off of dogs you know but essentially you know it was it was the sex training with you know being left uh for for you know for long periods of time in in you know kennels essentially you know the stainless steel like dog kennels that have like the you know like just like the great fronts you typically see at vets offices or anything like that like they would have one that would be wheeled into like this like indoor space that had like fake grass and stuff that typically most of the training and the bestiality scenes would occur in and they would like wheel in essentially this like this kennel and that was essentially seen a lot of the training for the dog altar was to to associate your kennel you know as as home as a safe place you know so there would be a lot of abuse but then you know you just associate getting put in the kennel as a place that you know that made you feel safe because you weren't going to be abused you know so there was a there's a lot of things that they do you know and and also like I said drugging you know so sometimes I think in these instances there was like LSD or even like alcohol you know that were involved you know where initially with a lot of these Kendall instances like it was literally just like me and like dogs you know with other dogs and stuff and then it it amps up to uh it being bestiality and now like it being filmed you know and there being being that involved you know being essentially like myself and myself and Susie that were um that were uh you know being being essentially like like like raped by dogs on film you know but a lot of the training also was like terror related so being left in a kennel you know for long periods of time not knowing when you know someone's gonna come back having uh things like uh like kittens be like mauled in front of you by like Rottweilers or stuff like that you know just a lot of like really really horrific things you know and the groundwork for essentially for this dog altar was then was then later on kind of picked up by um Schmeagel for the violence training with um with essentially a wolf altar. So towards the end of the training with uh with Schmuel there was there was um instances where they put you through and this is how they create like an abuser really is they they're gonna they put you in an instance where they're they're forcing you into you know in my case it was killing killing a kitten it was drowning a kitten you know and a little kid would never be interested in doing that you know but after they've you know after they've shown you this much this much trauma you're being you know pushed around like a lot of my stuff was like you know them uh you know torturing you with just like you know and as a kid you know it's still horrifying you know just being sprayed with really really cold water or really hot water stuff like that you know and essentially like and you'll you'll refuse you know because I there was no interest for me to do it you know over and over again and they'll they'll try something else and they'll try something else you know to get you to like essentially agree agree to their request you know and and essentially I I still wouldn't do it I still couldn't do it you know I couldn't I couldn't kill this little this precious little kitten you know so you know the last thing was for them to just like leave me you know like like wet and alone in the room and leave and like turn off all the lights and basically tell me that the you know the Rottweiler was going to be in soon to to tear me apart, you know? So it's like, you know, so and that's like where understanding people for like you know the parts and stuff like that. It's even remembering in the in that instance you know having the argument in my head between you know a couple of different parts you know essentially like you know where there was you know it it was realizing you know that it's like that there wasn't going to be any way out of the situation essentially you know and that like we were that we were going to die and essentially that there was because we believe them 100%. So you know so you know apart essentially just choosing to be like be like I'll do it you know essentially and you know and crawling to the door and calling to them and being like we'll do it you know and that's you know and that's what you know that's that's how it happens you know when it comes to the abuser training is you know they're they're gonna push every button they can until you agree to do what they what they want essentially you know and and that's that's really what what I experienced you know and and that's what happened you know is I you know they they came back in and I ended up I ended up drowning a kitten you know and it was and it like it still was like and even today you know is like one of like my harder memories I mean they're they're all really hard when you understand like what I'm dealing with you know but essentially you know that's the kind of stuff that was just even preliminary training for for what then uh Schmeagel took up as like as a wolf altar. And for that, you know, it was um you know he wanted me to be a a hunter basically you know like that that was like what all it was about. But it wasn't just me because that's the one thing I bring up to people is that I the training I was going through when it comes to the violence side of things there were other kids there too. You know we were they were considered part of like like my pack or something you know and they also were put through similar things and they're used you're used against each other and a lot of times initially even for that for play you know play acting hunting each other and stuff like that. And then but then the rewards and punishments you know for good behavior and bad performance you know and all that kind of stuff is you know is very is very horrific you know is you know being forced to like eat feces or different crap or you know like you know like rape all kinds of stuff you know that you're gonna have to do if you don't perform well you know so it's the game but not really. And then things essentially stepping up from there to being about uh you know hunting like uh and this is all taking place at this at this kennel and like the surrounding land essentially um like there was a lot of like uh like rabbits and cats at the place you know that were on hand so it's like they would they would have rabbits or cats that had been like drugged or lamed or something you know to make them like catchable I guess essentially for us because it at that point it was more about the fact that we were able you know they didn't want to give us like a normal rabbit or cat that we would just never be able to catch and they would just like laugh you know like because the they wanted us to catch him so that they you know could essentially force us to to kill him you know that was like the whole point of once that's like where the exercise had had gone, you know um and uh um essentially like it was the gate stuff you know was was all it was all in this time so a lot of me being out of school was like was to do a lot of this more like violence related stuff it was um it was gonna be testing type things but also at that point it's like I kind of already had a little bit of a of a role of a job essentially that like that you know that I had so at that point it was just essentially kind of like I was already on like my training path essentially like you know my program path and like and what what they were trying to create out of me. And uh a lot of that you know did have to do with the fact that my my dad was in the in the medical field. So the the um we can go over the the wolf altar and the new world order kind of style of training there. But just briefly I'd like to go over just like the last kind of bit of stuff was essentially the the occult training basically so there was you know like I said there was like the sex assassin part there was like the wolf hunter part and then the third part that like that was um that was created you know for him was based off of the ritual abuse and that was the fact that like I don't know how else to describe it other than that my role for multiple rituals that I had been trafficked to by him you know throughout my life up until um I don't even know up until college um was uh to be the butcher essentially like uh so at a ritual you would have um you know it's like you sometimes you'd be both the executioner and the butcher but sometimes it would just be it would just be the butcher. So a lot of my stuff my training when I was outside school was just about like um going to morgues like anatomy knowledge and stuff like that. So understanding anatomy of both like animals and people and everything um and just understanding kind of like um like butchery type skills and stuff. So like dismemberment and like uh skinning for example um and uh yeah so so essentially like with that you know kind of stuff it was and when you understand the kind of psychopath that he was you know you under and that my dad too you know like I said he his favorite porn was snuff porn you know it was people being burned being suffocated you know just the you know the worst stuff you can you can imagine you know like that it's you know he would obviously have no problem have no problem you know with this kind of stuff if anything like like I said like all these kinds of things he vicariously like thought like he got some sort of like thrill out of you know like somehow he was special because I was chosen to do these different things or to be used for these different things you know so that that would be like my role essentially in in different occult events you know would be to do the serving of the black mass I don't know how else to say it you know but it would be to you know to essentially be you know um like you know draining someone of blood you know um serving the blood you know like being able to like pour things neatly like I don't know how to describe it like that's each each part has skills you know and that's like the butcher that's one of the main things that was a big skill for like that part you know that part was just you know just being able to like pour things well you know doing doing just different stuff like that it's like catering stuff almost it's like but it's it's with cannibalism so it's like it's pretty much the worst shit you can you can imagine. I've struggled with nausea a lot of my life for for uh for this reason you know it's it's been it's been pretty difficult. Um so uh so yeah so it was it was a long it was a period of time in my life you know like essentially five to seven where I was just doing a lot of this like this training into learning about how to be you know uh to to be violent essentially and how to have these like these different like skills when it came to um when it came to that kind of stuff so that I could be just used for it later on, you know but like I said I think it's just because the abusers also get off on the fact that they're making you know making us victims do these things, you know so um I had like there was like a culmination event essentially that was uh it was a human hunting event that was him uh that was Smeagol and two other handlers with their two other like kids that had been being trained for the wolf stuff too um essentially like uh being taken out uh from the kennel to a uh like further out essentially like into in as far out as we could go essentially into like kind of a more deserty type area and um and meeting uh I guess a traffic a human trafficker you know like a coyote or something it was a guy in kind of like a like a beat up kind of red Cadillac style car and he essentially uh um he essentially uh had three kids so it was two little boys and myself and then the hand the handlers Schmigel and then the two other and then it was uh it was the uh trafficker and he had three little kids that were almost identical but they were three Mexican kids they didn't speak English so a little girl and two boys and it was pretty much like the event was seen as our graduation you know the culmination of our training where we were supposed to like hunt people for for real essentially and that's a lot of like what that whole experience was about and honestly like a lot of like my guilt that I've had to deal with even being like a little kid you know but because of how high up my like my master my uh Schmeeagel was you know I was seen as the leader of the pack so it's the fact that even that I led the hunt you know is something that's like that's really difficult to deal with you know or the fact that you know how a little girl you know just the way she looked at me the whole time like you know when I find them and bringing them back to these abusers you know like the little boys being forced to eat feces and the little girl being essentially gang raped by the three different men and stuff and and to just know that like that she was just seeing another little girl that was there and just not understanding like why it was that I could I could be participating in this stuff you know and it's like but it's it's hard to describe to people that it's like for that part that that's your whole reality you know like that kennel is home you know that guy that Smeagol that is your master and responsible for your whole livelihood and that's not someone you're gonna you're gonna risk displeasing you know and and for that and at that point too you know like I said it's culmination of training it's like you've done so much other fucked up stuff like that for that part it really you really are completely dissociated from your emotions. You see yourself as a wolf you know you that's that's how I saw myself in that memory that I was not a human being you know that I was you know that it's you know you feel like this disconnect that someone's just prey and not like not a another human being you know but it's what's that's the amount of trauma they have to put you to to put those walls up to where we can really you know create that compartmentalization and everything. So yeah so she was she was you know she was gang raped and then then Schmiegel essentially I don't know if he if he killed her you know or if it was if it was us kids you know but essentially it was it was him like holding her up but his hand was like over her nose and and mouth like both essentially like and and like forcing like us three kids to essentially like to stab her basically um and then once she had passed away you know it was you know he he like took her right nipple and cut it off and ate it and then told us that we also had to do the same thing and pretty much the whole instance was like you know was pretty much saying that it's like we were we were either wolves and allied with them and like and this or we were or we were little boys and girls and this is kind of and that and we were shown kind of what happened to little boys and girls you know and so it was just kind of more stuff to solidify like the thought in my head that was a big part of healing was realizing when my therapist said if if the police showed up right in that instance they they would not have arrested me you know like like a little six year old you know what I mean like they would not have arrested me they would have taken me into productive custody too even though I was being forced to do horrible things you know like and that was that's a huge part of healing is like you said is really looking back and understanding how how young and manipulated we were like for all of these events, you know and then later on when we're dealing with recall events where they're calling out those same parts understanding that they're still manipulating a really young part of yourself, you know, and that's like you know that's that's hard to wrap your to wrap your head around you know so so I was essentially like promised two things like um for completing my training and one of them was that I was going to go to a really big special event or big special ritual with uh um with Schmeagel. And then the other one was that uh was that I was going to go to Disneyland. So um the ritual event with uh with with Schmeagel was essentially us being uh sorry um Schmuel and uh Susie his daughter um and uh Schmeeagle and me and then my dad actually it was my dad I remember being excited about being included in this because like I said for most of uh the abuse events like he was like the guy would only interact with Schmuel and didn't really and want it wasn't really interested in interacting with like with my dad personally but there was a facade that we were having to maintain like because we were all getting on a personal private jet and flying you know from Texas to Washington DC um for a big party and ritual event um and the plan was to be there for several days. So my dad was around for us to essentially like have uh we could call my mom or when my mom called you know initially he was in the same room but then I was just handed over to this guy after like the first few hours you know and anytime my mom would call or they would set up the call for my mom, you know, it would be us like on a three-way call all pretending you know that you know that we were around but my dad was just out like with um with Schmuel this the whole time we were in Washington DC and I was being trafficked to Schneegle you know he was just out just getting drunk and partying and stuff like that. Like he had zero zero concern you know for me and where where I was at, you know so when we got there, it was uh you know going to a flat and being you know like being abused some but then also being gotten gotten ready you know even by a maid or someone you know that that he had and being dressed in a very adult satin gown you know that was low cut and didn't have a back big slips up the leg. It was a red uh satin um the to match his shirt and he had had a gold mask to match his uh gold sun mask essentially and then he had black pants black cloak and it was um it was very eyes wide shut you know it was a really nice ritzy location you know there was a there was a a ritual where uh myself and the other child sex slaves were like kind of um for the beginning part of it we were just kind of like put off in a room and then when the ritual began we were all arranged in a circle like on the outskirts of the ritual just to kind of like observe and then after that we were all kind of rejoined with our you know quote unquote masters or whatever to just be essentially abused by them for it was like you know cocktail party slash orgy afterwards you know so abused by them and then anyone they chose to chose to share you with. But essentially like I had two or three days of just being with this guy in his in his apartment, you know, and just being used by him one thing I like to let people know is that as big of a man as hard as he liked to say he was when it came to sex, like he he was interested in me always being drugged to the point of like being like a sex doll, being like completely non-responsive as in zero resistance, you know and if I wasn't then I had to pretend you know that that was that that was the case you know so real big man, right? But essentially after a couple of days of being kind of like used and drugged by him, I'm not sure which I had like kind of a a near death experience basically where um I it seemed like I left my body and I don't know if it was like an OD from the drugs or if it was just shock you know from all the stuff that I had been going through, you know, um because a lot of you know it's it's when you're dealing with like you know rape and anal rape and all that kind of stuff when you're dealing with like kids and stuff, you know, it's you know damage can be done you know so um so it was essentially me like leaving like it is a very vivid memory of me leaving my body you know and being uh brought to like a hospital and essentially having a conversation with my higher power to you know decide if I want you know if if I wanted to go back you know and and higher power understanding that if I didn't want to you know that it would be okay you know too but essentially that's where people have to have compassion if they're early in healing for parts that are seen as evil or allied with the abusers is because in my experience that's the part that stepped forward to say I'll take this burden you know like I'll I'll I'll do the bad things I'll fucking hold the bad things I need to just for us to survive you know and like and really in healing like I think that's where a lot of healing comes from is when we can understand those parts of ourselves that did feel so like allied with the evil people in our lives that we can really see you know that like that it really was just part of ourselves just trying to just trying to help us survive you know something that you know that it no one should no one should ever ever go through um yeah so um so yeah so so that that was um that was really tough you know it was you know having a memory of my dad being drunk you know and showing up at the hospital and everything because obviously I lived you know and and survived and stuff and um but uh you know that was all during my mom was away for training often but that was actually during uh my mom's uh when she was pregnant with my brother so she was kept for like three months in in the a military hospital during that time so who knows how much of that was like legitimate you know or how much of it was motivated by you know just wanting extra um extra time you know with me essentially um but uh but yeah they they ended up uh retiring from the army right around that time though and we and we moved um to Arizona um and and the abuse pretty much just kind of continued there uh much less of like the trafficking and pornography side of things almost almost none you know like I said a lot of that was um set up it seems like for you know creating the trauma to create the parts you know for this guy because for the most part after that point once we moved to Arizona I was trafficked you know here and there to people you know if especially if like my dad or someone saw them as like important you know but for the most part you know Spiegel was fairly possessive you know and you know really loved using me in like the rituals for example you know and making me do really violent things there and you know and like I said like to use me sexually for like his own ends and everything. But there was he was a little possessive so there was a little a lot less of you know the um the overall uh just the just the abuse by like number of people and everything um but uh it was um it was shortly after like we we moved there that I had uh another issue with with ritual abuse you know and that's one thing I like to let people know is that I I went through what I consider high budget rituals and low budget rituals. So so the high budget ones are the ones that I assume all the elites and everything go to you know like and the ones that I've said they seem like they have caterers or something you know the the number of costumes and the settings and torches and just you know like instruments like knives and just a number of things that are needed you know it's like there obviously is someone organizing this kind of stuff. But um when we uh did that Disneyland trip I had mentioned shortly after the my uh graduation ritual in Washington DC uh my dad um we had stopped uh at the town my dad grew up in essentially and and he had uh taken the time to take me to be abused by uh his younger brother my uncle um and during that time he was ragging about all the things that he had been in got getting involved in you know like his his the whole point of him abusing me with his brother was that like he was he was just so excited to just show him like all the sexual skills that I had essentially you know and that it was something it was apparent to me that they had abused people together before um but bragged to him about all that stuff and ritual stuff. So once I moved to once I moved to Arizona um my aunt and uncle also started using me for what I consider low budget rituals. So like he had uh like a uh um a band you know that was a little well known like in like the 90s and um ended up doing you know with her help and with my aunt's help his um his partner you know ended up doing a a sacrifice ritual as well like shortly after I had I had moved there you know they took an opportunity to for me to stay the night at their house after a barbecue and then went with him and his bandmates and her and she had um she had essentially like gone and got what she said was a a baby from Mexico you know like like most of the places I've lived are like on Mexican border. So I think that's why a lot of like the like more throwaway throwaway sacrifice kids that I've seen are have been Mexican, you know um but uh and this one was particularly has always been particularly hard for me just because like the baby to me seemed like it was already dying you know when when she had it. So I don't know if it was like if it could have been drugged, you know, but it was definitely seemed really like weak and like malnourished and stuff like that, you know, and and it was you know for that just being driven out into the woods and then finding a big rock you know and building a bonfire next to it you know and then doing you know essentially there was there was no structure to it was just getting drunk you know and you know trying to work up the courage I think to do the things that they you know that they were trying to do and it was a ritual for the success of the band and for her for uh for her to get pregnant you know and stuff like that you know and it involved bestiality with his dog and um you know and and essentially like my uncle being the one to have you know to they just wanted me to do the dirty work basically because they had known what I had been used for essentially but they also like didn't know how to trigger all the right you know so it's like they they essentially were putting me in a situation where they're trying to get me to do something and there was a lot of resistance like from me to to do it. But there was also on my aunt's part an understanding that my uncle if he wanted to like be you know get the power from it that he had to be participate in it you know so as far as like a sacrifice goes this one was like the fastest because it seemed like he didn't get enjoyment out of it. It was just like a functional thing but it was still was not like it was still the worst thing you know you can you can imagine you know and to me though it really is like the look of the baby is the thing that had I have the most difficulty with with that stuff is just knowing like how hard of a life you know and how much love you know it felt like he had never gotten you know and that's the thing to me that is very like it's just really difficult you know and and like why I have to talk about this stuff because it feels like there's so many victims that have just never are never going to have a voice you know for for the things that they that they had to endure you know um so you know so for me you know it I always continued to you know to be used for the ritual stuff there um the uh in sixth grade you know I was I was trafficked to the mayor of Tucson um at there was like a a big cavern that was like that had a big grand opening um and uh it's with like with a lot of these things in my experience it's like there's like a mainstream event and then there's like the private one essentially so it was you know being showed showing up to uh this like cavern site before it's open to the public um and uh being trafficked to uh uh the the mayor of Tucson him actually being very violent and them having to actually like step in and be like hey like she's not a throw she's not a throwaway person basically and him having to like take it down some but I think that's where a lot of like the occult kind of stuff comes in because he was being very verbally abusive about me being dirty being a whore I mean when you're talking about sixth grader like what the fuck you know but you know all this different stuff and and later on in the ritual that was the role that I was going to play was like the role of like the whore basically there was like the virgin which was a younger girl than than me that had was brought there by her dad and then essentially raped and then there was you know myself who played the role of the whore and then there was a priest a high priestess for this um situation. So um for this one actually um I do have the photo which which one was it labeled oh sorry this would be cavern ritual okay one is that awesome and I I'll just let people know too like the reason I do I I started doing the watercolor journaling is really because like it felt like I could get the scene in my head out the fastest and then I could we could spend more time internally for those parts processing the emotions and spending less time with that part trying to really like describe all the details of the scene and you'll see that most of the time they are from sometimes you will see them from like a first person perspective but most of the time they're gonna be from like a a distance perspective because it is really like it's either like an out of body experience or it's the kind of thing where literally it's just that's just the the part just giving me I don't know how to describe it it's very it's very automatic you know just giving me like essentially like the scene um so this was essentially like a trailer um out back behind uh the main visitor center um where it they had been doing construction and different stuff you know so it was almost like you know like a spot that had like a kitchen and like a little like a bathroom and like a little like living room type area for people um like to use like break break room status and everything. So it was it was being uh introduced my my dad being introduced um by his boss who was a a hand surgeon that was well known in the area uh to to the mayor you know like them talking I'm sitting on the couch between the two of them and the mayor is in the blue uh on the couch there um but that essentially you know them them talking to him being a very normal interaction you know until until they leave you know and then it was it was him essentially it um berating me attacking me them having to come in and tell him to chill out and then you know him essentially like telling me to go get him a drink and then and then when I turned around he ended up attacking me and raping me again. But a lot of it like I said was about kind of reinforcing this idea that I was like um that I was like a like a whore you know or the whore you know because the archetype believed that was my role for for the upcoming ritual. So the next one is like the scene from like uh inside uh the cavern so there was uh there was a a high priestess who was like who was nude and had like a big feather headdress um she's not in this one um if you want to go to the next um one with the yeah there you go so um so for this ritual it was like it was pretty much like just a sex ritual so there wasn't any um sacrifice involved as far as I remember but I was also drugged for this one like it when my dad came in after to the trailer after I had been raped by the um the mayor he he gave me a glass of water and told me to ask if I wasn't feeling well and if I just needed to lay down and take a nap, you know, and I did and then essentially woke up in a very you know very woozy drug state and and a lot of this stuff was very blurry too because I was I wore glasses you know most of the time and I was like taken out like without glasses. So essentially I left that trailer uh completely nude except for wearing like a white robe and was led into like a cavern area had to be half carried because I was having trouble with the like the grugging and walking myself um where there was almost like an amphitheater type space you know that was that was in the in the cavern um a low uh what you're seeing is like a low altar it's like it was only maybe about like maybe eight inches high or something you know it was like a low platform that had like red cloth you know and the and gold uh like little cross on it and then there was like six men in red robes that were performing the ritual and then that was being led by like a high priestess who wasn't there. So for this one, you know it was it was initially two men raping a little girl, you know, the virgin then it was two men and one of them was the mayor again uh raping me uh basically and then it was um the last two men that were actually they performed like more of like a sexual worship I guess of of the priestess like um for for that for that particular one um but in general I didn't have as many trafficking instances like this like I said it was more when it seemed more like when Smeagol decided to share me with someone you know than it was anything else and most of like the trafficking instances were more me playing like I said the role of butcher and stuff um stuff like that. So I think the next slide there is um is just you know it might be graphic you know for some people but yes is essentially like how you know how the the whole scene you know played out with like each um each person being you know essentially like raped by two by two individuals. So um that's um that's kind of like the uh what should we call it um and I think we're good on the on the photos now but that that's kind of like the repetitive nature that like um that this kind of stuff would have like it would usually it wasn't super often because my mom was a stay-at-home mom at that point but it it was something that you know that happened fairly regularly up until up until college you know and that's like that's the thing that's difficult to explain to people is that you know up until up until college there were still times you know where I was literally being you know being you know triggered you know out out in public by my abusers and stuff and then being you know essentially like like picked up and that was either a night because like I said I was out you know I was in college I was out doing a lot of um you know a lot of partying and stuff like that. A lot of times it was just someone finding me at the bar or the party and you just leave with them, you know, and friends are just like, whoa, okay just you know just just carry being wild carry you know what I mean but not knowing that I'm going to like to like a ritual event or something like that, you know, or um you know or even times like where it was like it was very set up you know to like for me to get flat tire on my bike you know and then to have to have them pull up in a car to offer me a ride and then it's when I refuse you know to for like trigger words to to be used for example you know so um yeah so I know that's a lot. Do you have any like questions or anything? Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 2:31:40

And then you're already called stuff I think is the it's so impactful to hear you know or I should say to see photos that go along with what you're saying. It just it creates such a different um such a different internalized experience of understanding for this. So I really appreciate you showing that and it's it's amazing that you're just the power in our minds how we're able to extract information sometimes better with our hands than we are in a way you know and I love that you found different ways to be able to do that because not everybody's going to have the same experience of how they're healing. And I always love like giving people tools like if nothing else works like try this you know try drawing it out. It might not work but it's another tool you know and you had success doing it. And I think it's interesting how you you saw it. Like some people feel things some people will hear stuff you know you you have like a powerful visual that you could easily you know draw out and then construct the story like reverse engineer it from there and be like all right what am I looking at?

SPEAKER_00 2:32:42

For sure for sure. And that's typically like what like how how a lot of my journaling has been directed is like it really like it's I don't know how to describe it. It's like the part that is sharing just wants what it wants you know and that like when I had the ritual abuse memories and all the violence memories coming up it felt like because there was so much like blood involved really you know and different kind of stuff like that that it's like it felt like you know doing things with pen or different stuff and never it never really did it justice to get you know on paper like what what we had seen. Because obviously you know I have I have way more graphic you know things and a lot of times the the things I have to journal are like the most the most difficult parts for them to feel like less to to take them down to a less intense level you know so I mean and and those things like I I don't think I'll share many people share with many people because I I doubt anyone would want to see it unless unless unless you're a fucking psychopath or something you know what I mean. So maybe maybe for another day you know just so that people can really I mean if they really want to internalize like what what this shit is. But in my experience like when survivors put out more graphic survivor art it seems to be like the abusers that collect it. So um yeah. That's a good point. That's that's that's all that's all I'll say you know so that's part of why I was like, oh like, do I want to put this out? You know? So it but those things that do describe the scene I think are very are are important just to show people, you know, just the the reality of like of what we're dealing with, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:34:14

Um so I mean I mean the last thing that I are you I'm sorry are you able to say who the mayor was at that time? If not, I mean people could probably go look it up.

SPEAKER_00 2:34:25

It's you know with public records, but I was um so I'm like I'm torn about it because the thing is if people were to just look at the year and look at the mayor, it's it's gonna give you the wrong person. Basically. So and he's and he's he's deceased uh essentially too um but he was uh his name's George Miller and he was um he was essentially so if people look at the year it says that it's the next mayor coming in but he was like it was during the time it was during the transition time basically where he was still mayor and the new guy hadn't officially taken over taken over power so he was he was on his way out um but yeah so so I mean that's that's one you know uh and the only reason I'm mentioning his name was like I said it's because he's he's deceased all my other abusers as far as I'm aware are still alive and kicking unfortunately so um you know one day they'll they'll see they'll see the justice they need I don't I don't wish any harm on anyone but at the same time when it comes to people like this I I recognize that um they're not gonna stop on their own so you know and then there's a lot of people out there that need to be protected. So you know like one day we're gonna get the justice the justice we need you know and sometimes it is even in their own lives by their own karma because they have they have drinking problems they have all the other things you know that tends to you know have them you know ship out sooner than the rest of us luckily um yeah um so I guess like the I guess the kind of like the last thing in like my in my timeline that I had kind of wanted to go over a little bit was just the recall um event type things. And when it comes to the recall events like that's the thing like you know for most survivors is the hardest thing to kind of wrap your head around you know for me it was for sure just because it was um this belief you know that I had not had experience in my adult life you know with these with these people at all but there are a lot of survivors of trafficking and like you know these more like you know um more intense like like mind control style events you know where they're really trying to create something out of you essentially that you know have experienced what they call like recall events where essentially it's almost like them uh you know your abusers the abuser network um picking you up later on in life to see to essentially trigger you you know into the different parts the different altars that they've created um and reinforce all the programming that they put in you know and for me my hunch is you know when I look at like my age and everything um my my hunch really is it was I was 26, you know, my hunch really is that like that it's at least when I look at my life that it's something that they're trying to do to like head up when they know that your brain chemical changes are typically happening and stuff like that, when those dissociative barriers are going to start coming down, you know, that it's almost like at least for me that's how it felt is it almost felt like it was it was an opportunity for them to essentially see if they could trigger those parts still see if they could if they were all still like reinforced in the negative beliefs that they have you know that the you know that our abusers are all powerful that you know that we can never talk you know all the things that reinforce us not healing not talking you know about what happened all of that stuff you know so so for me it was with my experience you know like uh that um with with my with my aunt and uncle getting involved in like the ritual abuse stuff like I have a feeling that my aunt became more involved in the organization herself um you know through like my dad and stuff as well um just because her daughter who's about 10 years younger than me was also trafficked um to to the organization as well and and I think like this recall event was essentially set up uh it was a pretext set up you know by her uh for a vacation that then essentially put me right back in the clutches of like of Schmeagel essentially and and someone he had there as like his assistant. But essentially it was to it was uh presented to me as like a cruise that was going to be going on with uh my aunt my uh my cousin and then her friend um and uh it was to leave out of Florida so um I was tapped on to the group I guess at the end of the of everything so I ended up getting a separate flight from everyone else so for my recall event to describe you know like what it looked like you know it was essentially uh arriving at the airport in Florida and as I got off the plane there was a man just in typical tourist clothes that essentially like I made eye contact with and he did like you know a weird like kind of hand motion with like his two hands basically um and at the time you know this is before I was healing and everything like with most people with DDNOS you know we tend to have like a very you know masked like shell like front personality that's like exactly what our abusers want. So I had no ability to like recognize abusers at all. Like I was just always easy I didn't have anger I didn't have sadness I didn't I was just I was always I was very dissociated from those emotions and everything was just like was just like I was kind of an airhead like I was I don't know how to put it you know like very like you know what an abuser wants you know someone that has no intuition is just going to let them walk all over him you know so you know and especially you know then it's like you know oh a guy you know looks at makes eye contact and smiles you know and yeah he gave like weird hand movement but it's it's weird with this kind of stuff it's almost like you see it but then you immediately like discount it you know it was just like oh well that was like weird like on to the next thing you know I'm walking through the airport finding my spot you know so it's like well that was weird but whatever you know get on the shuttle show up at the hotel like where I was going to be meeting up with uh my my aunt and everyone and uh essentially Smeagol was there. Um but I I knew I kind of recognized him because I walked he made eye contact with me and smiled. So I walked up to him but I didn't at that time I I didn't have my memories in of in entirely of all the stuff that I had gone through as a as a kid, you know, other than knowing that he was somewhat familiar it's like it was just this feeling of like walking up to him and he just being plain clothes. He's an older older man, you know, is probably like 60 some, you know, or early 70s at that point um walking up to him you know and um because it's like instinctual I don't know how to describe it. It's like you know it's like that that when part of you recognizes it. So it's like as soon as I make eye contact and he smiled you know it's like I walked up to him and he went to shake my hand and then kind of pulled me in for an embrace and said like kind of like a little weird phrase essentially in my ear. And um I was like you know and it's the kind of the same thing where it's like you you like let go of him and then it's like almost immediately I'd forgotten that that interaction had happened. I was just like almost like oh that was weird and then I just like moved on to like walking to to the front desk to find out where my aunt um was but the the hand signal and the the verbal signal kind of combined essentially created like a dissociative switch in me after I had gone to sleep for the night. So I went to bed like normal but with that trigger like I would have a part you know the the uh sex assassin part that uh that Schmeagel had created um she was kind of like a madame for the other sexual parts on the in the system so would call out the sexual parts that were needed depending on the situation and everything but had a more of you know an abuser kind of role because of that you know very gisling Maxwell you know so um so essentially you know her job you know was to once we went to bed after midnight to then leave the room exit the room so we exit the room and outside the room is the younger of the two the two men I just call him you know Smeagol's assistant um and he he's waiting there for me to escort me like um onto the elevator and into a different room where Smeagle was waiting. And it was just it was seeing him and he liked when for that sex part it was to call him it was uh to call him daddy basically that was his that was his like many abusers their preferred choice of term I guess you know and um so you know it was immediate recognition like like oh hi daddy you know and being essentially given a a pill because like I said that's what he liked you know is he liked liked me being not all there um and everything and uh some lingerie essentially to go get changed to get changed you know uh while he set up the cameras with the with his other guy and essentially for that night it was calling out you know different sex parts where the whole point was because I was in a in a loving relationship with like my partner who's I've been together with like 11 years and he's like you know he's one of the main reasons I've like healed is because he's just so loving and supportive and amazing and just the best the best father that like anyone could could ever imagine. But you know I was you know I was had a really strong relationship with him was like was in love with him you know and everything. So a lot of like that initial night was about blackmail was this sexually humiliating me like making me do like a lot of things you know were doing a lot of things like to me like um that were and a lot of it too was because they were pulling out you know like the child sex alters and stuff like that is like a lot of like performance on my part that would be very humili that would be very humiliating you know if it were to come out especially my partner would just see it like with other with other people and everything like that, you know so so that really would kind of like the thing that kind of set the tone you know it was almost like it was like the blackmail that was for my current self was like the thing to start everything. And then I there were three nights after that that were on the cruise itself that I had the same thing happened, you know, where I would be triggered and then I would leave my room after after the night um after I had gone to bed and then go up to their room um and then more programming would take place. So like the first night you know was um mostly about uh being gagged and mostly being about like physical torture, you know, so like you know shocking the pinprick stuff all over again some like VR kind of stuff, you know, where they're showing you really horrific things like um on you know headset type stuff or um you know at least being told and I still am skeptical about this, you know, but at least being told that I had uh like a chip you know that had been implanted so they would always know you know what was going on with me or that they would be able to control me or stuff. And like I said like this stuff is hard for me to like give real seriousness to because so much of the of this program you're dealing with, it sounds so big and scary, but it really is just um like it's really just like you can tell kids anything to confuse them to confuse them and you know so convince them of shit. So for me it's like even having a memory of a of a chip being inserted and stuff it's like it could literally been nothing and it's just it's just them telling you that something's there that's going to keep that level of fear and oh like I can't escape you know type of thing. So you know so there there was there was a lot of that you know the second night was um to call out all the cult allied parts that you know that uh Smeagol had done so and making us you know doing a real fancy late night dinner you know and just essentially that night didn't have as much trauma to it it was more like reinforcing the reason why we wanted to be part of the cult you know and you know and uh my cousin being there at like that fancy dinner too so she was also being trafficked to some guys there you know the whole dinner you know was people that were in the know you know so there was obviously other people on the cruise that were all like part of the part of the same thing you know basically and a lot of the thing on the cruise too was about me essentially signing documents you know at that night being you know wined and dined and then presented with documents where I was essentially like you know legally signing over and re re agreeing to everything that they said including like ownership over my children or something you know like any future kids that I have you know we're gonna we're gonna belong to them and and all kinds of stuff you know like that so and and that for that part of you that's a hundred percent allied it's like that part of you has no feeling towards kids or anything like that part of you is the person that evil queen that they've that they wanted to create you know at that point. So for that person it's like you I don't have attachment to kids why would I have any problem signing this document you know but to look back on that as a mother you know and to see like how they much they can manipulate someone to be at that point you know is just it's just sickening you know and heartbreaking you know and the last night of the cruise you know was there to essentially call out you know my more sexual sadistic altar you know to uh abuse my cousin who was underage at the time you know so that's that's part of like why I was bringing stuff up is that with all this blackmail stuff you know that's that's what it is it's blackmail you know and if any of these things were to come out you know like especially because I was over over 18 when these dissociative parts were being exploited you know it's like if there was no context for this kind of stuff you know it's like you know I I would hate me too you know like so so it's like it it's understanding completely you know that like you know I don't know a lot of it's trying to take away the powers of the manipulation and everything you know um so so that was one part you know of of the recall event and then the second part of the recall event which I consider it the second part even though it was like you know over a year later was um was essentially a trafficking event where I had gone to Paris with my mom and same same situation. I had started to be triggered while we had arrived in the airport and started feeling really violently ill kind of because of it. And like I have a feeling at that point my triggers weren't working quite as well um because uh there there was multiple times where I was getting the hand signal like on the trip that I was um that I was seeing like on the I think we say Dorsey and stuff. But eventually, you know uh we I had seen the hand signal several times and then once we were at like a fancy dinner um for my mom's birthday uh I was down in you know all the basements or all the bathrooms in Paris are in basements basically so even this schwanky ass spot that we were at had a basement bathroom. So I went down to town to this swanky basement. You just want to use their bathroom and uh Sweagel was there, you know, to give me to essentially you know see me as I came out of the bathroom and give me um the the verbal signal. So what we see here on the screen is essentially the bottom left hand corner is just me um you know leaving the hotel like at you know in the middle of the night you know and literally at that point it's like for anyone even the front desk people it's like it literally would have been me you know of my own accord walking out of the room walking past you know they probably would be assuming that I'm having a cigarette or something like that you know just walking out the lobby waving you know like waving to the people the lobby you know like oh like have a great night okay cool thanks you know what I mean like you know and just going out and and there being uh essentially like a a guy waiting to open the door for a black limo for me and I got into the back and Schneagle was there waiting um and he uh you know he essentially was kind of finished doing some things to kind of like ensure the right part was out including sexually abuse me um and then I was brought to uh to this uh Frenchman's apartment basically where who I had been trafficked to and he was hosting a uh cocktail party that was a a pre-ritual uh cocktail party uh so a lot of that event you know was just me uh you know that's that's the bottom right hand corner is just me hanging out with with the French man, the man I had been trafficked to um remembering conversation of like how fucked up it was that it's like you know it he it was it it there's there's a certain level of like them sharing their slaves with each other too that just feels like you know like a uh it's it's they're living vicariously through their slaves' abilities or something you know so so it was just like him you know Smeagol giving me to this guy and just it feeling like it was all for Smeagol to feel like more cool or more powerful you know or whatever because he had gotten this guy like the perfect sex kitten you know and that's like what you know they had talked about you know was just that you know he this French man had been looking forward to meeting me because I was more like I was more like European sex kittens as opposed to American ones because I wasn't just like I wasn't just the Marilyn Monroe you know I wasn't just I had like I had like the art stuff and I had I was academically I was always you know like said gate program and everything I was always very um academically advanced you know um and that kind of stuff you know and then not to mention you know the like the occult kind of skills all that stuff for them was just something that just made me a you know a more fascinating sex kitten a more you know and he just was so intrigued that I was like an like an American sex kitten that you know had had more more to me you know I guess you know which is fucked up you know so that was most of that you know cocktail night and then all these people essentially all got into cars and then drove to essentially what was like it looked like you know like a church or government type building type thing that had like an entryway underneath it to like some uh catacombs and that's what you're seeing as like the top part so it was essentially a ritual space that was underneath Paris it had like there was some natural features to the rock but a lot of it was more like um it was flat walls with like you know the little square I don't know like drawers that they put people in there there was like you know it's a gravesite you know basically you know so there's like some carved pillars you know in um you know wrought iron like candelabras and stuff like that but the whole thing was like a sepulchre had like you know it was there was um obviously like bodies like in in the walls and everything and there um you know there was uh another high priestess you know and the people that were performing the ritual were also in red I was like dressed before that in like uh like literally just a uh like an executioner hood it was like nude and with like kind of a gold belt and dingly thing and then just like uh essentially a red executioner hood that like you know fully concealed like my my face um and everything and um you know and for that one it was you know it was uh uh that one's tough too because it's like you know different age ranges you know it's like babies they don't have as much awareness you know but she was like more like a toddler she was more like two or so you know like two or three you know it was a a little girl you know victim that had been essentially you know was sexually abused and then after after that it was essentially my job to go and um you know to help with the people that were then like you know draining their blood and like catching it in like you know in a basin to then be distributed for like a a black mass type thing. And um and then my my main role was that was like a butchery part which was essentially that like it was had the whole thing had like a black mass kind of feel to it. So the communion would would have you know was was the blood that was like served you know out of like these like silver chalices. And then there was um for like I guess the communion it was uh like the digits of like the fingers and toes that it's like I had to like separate essentially like and then you know that's what you know cannibalism style that was that was like what was like served for the like their their black mass so that's the next slide there you know would be um would be what you're seeing there which is essentially you know the high priestess standing behind me like in me uh with like the with the little girl essentially like she's already deceased um there you know but essentially like doing some dismemberment so that the the line of people that's that's waiting there that have been witnessing the ritual can like uh essentially you know come up and partake in the in the cannibalism uh aspect aspect of things so um yeah so um as far as I'm aware it's hard when you're dealing with associative stuff this is like the last um the last time that I had any interaction um with these people you know I I had a big lag in college prior to this recall event because I essentially was break my programming was breaking down and I was just kind of like a self destruct mode and had kind of decided was just really being really promiscuous, you know, like other than what the cult, you know, and my and Schmeagel had wanted, you know so at after several instances during college of trying to like pick me up and like really like reinforce the humiliation and different stuff to try and get me to like not be so Going so crazy essentially, like it's like he just kind of like lost I don't know. He he lost interest with me, basically, you know. It's like he's the they're only interested in people they can really control, you know. And I like at a certain point I got to the point, you know, where I just I was in self-destruct mode. So that's just why that's part of why, you know. And there was a lot of things that he did to make me cut myself, doing a lot of things, you know, to try and like reinforce, you know, like putting that stuff back in a box because essentially, you know, he just wanted to have control over who he didn't want me, you know, sleeping with who I wanted to sleep with. He only wanted me to sleep with who he wanted, you know, essentially. So so until the recall event, you know, and then after that, it was probably maybe a year after the Paris event that I start, I mean, I really started like, you know, I I had been breaking down for years, you know, during like the heavy ritual time, like October through December consistently. It would just be every year, I would just I would go through the deepest like depression and just like, you know, really be ready to give up on everything, you know. Um, and that's kind of where I was, where I was at, you know, after like the Paris stuff, you know, it's like you have all the all the flashbacks coming up, all the emotions and different stuff and not having like the context for it, you know, I was really in a place ready to like to give to give up, you know. But that's also why I'm like grateful is when we hit our bottoms, you know, is when we like is is when we have the opportunity to go the other direction, you know, and and as much as I was ready to like give up when it came to just dealing with like the mental health struggle and the PTSD symptoms, like my whole life, you know, it was really, it was my empathy in the fact that it's like I had loved ones in my life and I couldn't do that to them, you know, that made me made me start to like really work on myself and and heal, you know, and and from that, you know, came some of the roughest years of my life, you know, because when you choose to look at things you've you've put in a box for so many for so long, you know, it it does sometimes feel like it gets rougher before it gets better. But that's the thing I always come back to people is that it's worth it, you know, that the number of phobias, triggers, just everything that I used to have, you know, prior to dealing with these, with, with all this stuff from my past, you know, was was infinite, you know, and the number now it's like it's it feels like a handful. So it's like it's the way that it can really give you ownership of your life again to not feeling, you know, not feeling like a slave, feeling completely empowered and you know, and now getting to the point where I can see, you know, I can see Smeagol and the way he looks nowadays in his 80s with his giant alcoholic nose, and just know that if I were to like see him on the street, that at this point he would be the one afraid, not me. You know, he would be the one like, oh shit. You know, and that that to me is like, you know, it's it's a feeling that I can't like I I really can't like, you know, it's it's worth more than the world. Feel like I can protect myself, protect my son, you know, and that, you know, to really feel like these motherfuckers don't have any power over me, you know, that's you know, it it really is the best feeling in the world. I and I think the only thing I didn't go over, you know, in regards to stuff, if you do want to get into it, where you know, we can always talk about it at another time, was just the new world order aspect of things, you know. Like, like I said, that I kind of I kind of feel bad because I kind of laugh a little bit when I talk about the New World Order stuff because it's kind of hard for me to understand, like, especially knowing how fucked up their timeline, their timeline is like how much of this stuff ever was ever gonna happen and how much of it is literally just like delusions of grandeur with like psychopaths. Because it's like you're gonna tell your slaves a lot of things, you know, and they're gonna believe them because we're kids, you know what I mean? And but it's like it's so consistent with survivors to be talking about, you know, even in my own life, that was a lot of what broke that programming was to realize, like, oh, like I'm like way older than I was supposed to be for the roles that they gave me, you know. Like I've already like my expiration date was 35 and I just turned 35 last month. So even that, like, was for me was like, you know, was that I was told that I was given most slaves had a 30-year-old expiration date, but I was special because I was given that extra five years as I had other roles, you know, other than just sex kit and stuff, you know. But to know that even that is like, oh, like I like that was supposed to happen when I was in my 20s, you know, and like, you know, and and you know, here we are and now it's like I'm still living my life and you know, and like I've I've never been picked up, you know, and enslaved again, you know, it's it's uh you know, it's it's a beautiful thing when you start realizing like how much uh you know, there is a lot of very real stuff to be worried about when it comes to psychopaths, but there's also a lot of stuff that's just total bullshit, you know.

SPEAKER_02 3:00:45

Well, and and talking too about, you know, you made a good point, just these illusions of grandeur almost. Like they try to be so clever, and like it's it if what they did wasn't so horrifying, it would almost be funny the effort that they put into some of the stuff. Like whenever you were going over that ritual when your savior came in on his white horse, like I was in that moment thinking about it from your child's eye, but then afterwards I had a flash of that is so silly that adults get together and like they literally got a white horse from somewhere. They shoot up like he was Fabio.

SPEAKER_00 3:01:26

They're like and it's like in his mind, he's like, he's like it's an experience for him that he's like, I don't know. It's like it's like this whole like facade that's set up for him to be yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:01:39

It's like an effort to like make a five-year-old feel like she's indebted to you. Yeah, it is just so bizarre just to think about you know, actual grown adults who are probably respected in their community, probably have a lot of money, a lot of resources, like literally sitting in a room, like, all right, who's got the horse? Like, who's gonna go get the horse? You know, who's gonna get a horse from? Who's got my my white outfit? Who's gonna do my hair? It's like yeah, so it sounds crazy because it is like these are literal crazy people doing actual crazy things, you know what I mean? And it is like it's so bizarre to think about being a part of this world and how much detail and thought goes into everything that they do. But also, like if you take out anything else, like if you just look at like the overview of like what they're planning, like how incredibly like silly most of it is, you know what I mean? It's it's it's just so hard to even fathom. But I completely agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:41

Yeah, yeah. And that's that's really that's really how how I feel about it too, is like initially when when you're dealing with flashbacks coming up initially, it's like you're gonna be dealing with like, you know, like there's you I mean, you really do feel like everyone says, you know, like it's like it's happening in that moment. So that level of belief that you had in that moment of like fear of like whatever powers or abilities they had or whatever like plan for the future or whatever role or whatever, you know, it really is. It's like we come back to, you know, it's like for that part, like those times of trauma are their whole world. They don't have the con, they don't have like normal life to draw on to be like, be like, oh, like things are gonna be like, you know, I'm gonna have, you know, lunch later this day, you know, or a different, you know what I mean, to just know that all that stuff, you know. So for those parts, yeah, it's like it's so easy to convince them of like a crazy worldview and just and for them to just be like a hundred percent bought into it, you know, and like, and like I said, I'm not like discounting some reality to this shit because the thing is I do believe they are trying to really do all these things that they talk about when it comes to like the more new world order plan type of stuff. Like, yeah, they're psychopaths. There's there's obviously a desire for world domination. Like, why wouldn't there? That's that's the name of the game for them, you know, is to dominate, control, all that kind of stuff, you know. So, you know, so for sure, you know, it's like it's I would understand that I don't know, that almost to me it's like these belief systems or like the new world or shit would almost naturally arise, you know, out of like a psychopathic community of people, you know. But and but that's where I'm at is like understanding that that's a reality versus understanding the reality to which it's like actually gonna be enacted, you know, to me. Like that's where I don't have like I don't have very much fear and stuff like that. Cause I do feel like, you know, I don't know, it's like as fast as like they're trying to put people to sleep, people are waking up faster, you know? And like, and that like, you know, even in my life, like when it looks at when I look at like the fact, like when I was first healing, like six years ago and seven years ago, and talking about like Epstein to people and everything, and everyone just looking at me like I was crazy, you know, like people don't do that, you know? And I was just like, and then to for like it'd be like two or three years later, and then and then all of a sudden it's like the same people that were like that doesn't exist, he'd be like, Oh, did you hear Epstein killed himself? And I'm like, Yeah, I mean, I like, yeah, everything you're telling me I've known for like five, six years, but it's just because people don't, you know, they don't they don't really want to look into it, which I don't blame them on a certain level, because it's like, you know, who is gonna choose to look at these things, you know, unless you're forced to, you know. So so I I completely, I completely understand that. And and the thing is too, is when you're dealing with things that are so delusional, grandeur style when it comes to new world order stuff, it is easy for people on the outside that don't believe it psychopaths to just hear that Illuminati shit or something and just be like, that's stupid. That's just some Hollywood shit. How could anyone ever think that they would do that? You know what I mean? Like, and so yeah, so it it's understandable, you know. Um uh would you like me to go at all into the the role that I was supposed to have for the NWO? Okay, cool. Um, so there was there was a couple. Um, there's two, um, actually. So um, so one of them was that uh that I had been um essentially because of the problem-solving abilities and stuff like that, like I and the wolf altar that had been created, um, and all of that training about like the motivation that was given to us was essentially that it was part of like the New World Order agenda. Um, is that uh the role that I was given was called hunter tracker, basically. And that essentially I was I was chosen because of, you know, like my problem solving, my attention to detail. Intelligence was a lot of it. Like, so a lot of like me and the other pack mates was about like that you were gonna have slaves that had to be supervised, and you were gonna have slaves that were essentially trusted and allowed to like go out and be on their own and enact stuff, you know, a lot more and make more of their own decisions, essentially, you know, in in service of the cause. So for my role, um, it was basically that I was gonna be called on and people, you know, that had the same role, the hunter, tracker type stuff. It was mostly guys. That was part of one thing that was also impressed upon me was that I was special because I was like a girl that was doing this kind of stuff, you know, that um, you know, but it was also one reason it was seen as a huge asset, basically, was that was that I was a female. So um, so for me, like what I was instructed is the, you know, the whole role was that, you know, the wolf altar at the time that the New World Order had um essentially taken over, you know, all of the major populate populaces and stuff. And um there was a lot a large refugee population that was going to be, you know, kind of be on the run and everything. The hunter trackers were meant to essentially be going out and tracking down those people. Um, the goal was that you were going to be killing any adults that were refugees because they've already proved that they're not, you know, usable essentially for their agenda. So they just wanted to dispose of them. Um, and then uh then the any kids that the refugees had were supposed to be essentially like like taken by me and or whoever, you know, whoever the hunter was, you know, back to our home base, essentially. So for me, it was put to me in like a couple of different ways that essentially it was um you had the wolf altar come out, you know, that uh would feel very at home in the woods, you know. So we would be directed to an area to go search, you know, and we would just go out and just live in the woods, basically, just looking for signs of people, essentially, and um allowing ourselves to like get fairly dirty and different things like that, because the whole point was that if we were to find a group of three adults um or less, then um the goal was that I I needed to sneak up on them at night and then you use my knife to essentially kill, kill them and then take any kids if they had them. And if not, then I would just go back and just report where where the bodies were at, essentially. Um but things got a lot more complicated if it was more than more than three people, basically. So if it was more than three people, I was supposed to do um one of a few things. So essentially the wolf altar was supposed to take a back seat once we encountered those, once we encountered those people. And, you know, my public persona, who's, you know, very charming and friendly and all that kind of stuff, you know, very just normal and innocent, seeming, you know, was supposed to come out. But depending on the size of the group, we were supposed to either pretend to be sick, you know, and we were going to just be a lone female coming out of the woods, you know, on this refugee group. We were either supposed to pretend to be sick, you know, and it, or we were literally supposed to injure ourselves, you know, do something like use a rock or stick or something to like, you know, physically injure ourselves so that you we would be more like lame duck, essentially, you know. So we would arrive into refugee camp, you know, we would be taken in as like another wounded refugee. And like essentially there were like parts in the background, the wolf part, and then like the sexual assassin part that were supposed to be assessing the the particular group for the personalities that were going on and the leaders to understand like whether what whether our are best in to like becoming part of the group and then advancing as far as status in the group, whether it was going to be through sexual means or whether it was gonna be through, like I said, like the problem-solving means, like because I could like, I don't know, I'm good at like inventing and McGiring stuff, you know. So it's like, you know, like, oh, we need like this like random thing made out of like sticks and rocks, you know. So it's just it's it sounds stupid, you know what I mean? But it's the kind of thing that it's like that I've all, you know, they reinforce too. So it's like they also give you additional stuff, you know, but just in being useful, so being able to like help with like medical stuff or splinting or being able to help like with, you know, just just normal things that you would need for living in the woods, you know, just kind of stuff like that, you know. Essentially, if you ever heard of COINTELPRO, how like the FBI's like whole thing was with um infiltrating, you know, uh counterculture groups and stuff, is that you know, you you have your undercover agent that goes in, but because they're technically an agent and they do have way more skills than other people, they're able to like advance very quickly through the ranks of the group, you know, and gain a position of power and trust because of that, you know. People don't suspect, you know, that that that's the case. So it's the same with me, you know, is that that I was supposed to find my route to getting an in with the group. Um during that time, I needed to be assessing like the kids, like so kids that were like in between time, like so they were like 11, you know, to like you know, 15 or so, you know, or like you know, roughly that age where you know, looking at like tweens and stuff like that. Those ones were supposed to be like assessed on whether or not they were gonna be cooperative and like would, you know, just come back with me, or whether they had to be when the time came, you know, also killed along with the with the adults, you know. And um, and that's pretty much what most of it was about is that, you know, is that there was gonna be front persona that was doing all the other stuff, and then the other persona that was essentially making all the plans for, you know, when was gonna be the right opportunity to essentially, you know, do what we did, you know, with the other, you know, a smaller group, you know, which would be kill the people we were supposed to kill and then take, you know, the kids, you know, back essentially to to the base, you know, and giving myself time to to figure out supplies, you know, all the different things I would need to try and get as many kids back alive as I, as I could, essentially, you know, and you know, have big kids carrying smaller kids, like all that kind of stuff, you know, was like all the different logistic type of shit, you know, that they like that they went into, you know, with me. Um, and it was stuff that they would like that they um would like reinforce, you know, with programming, like I was saying, like so like a lot of like the training for like the for like knives or like or like weapons or stuff like that, like they create that altar for you like early on, but almost like before you physically can do those things. So then it's like later on, it's like there were instances like where I was at church camp out of town or different things, like where they had opportunities to like, you know, pick me up for a night, you know, or you know, a little bit at a time, you know, and it's like almost like there would be like um additional training added on to those parts, you know, because now we were fit at a physical age where we could actually maneuver and manipulate, you know, these kinds of um, these kinds of things, you know, the weapons and everything. So so that was one role. And then the other role was supposed to come after this role. So this was after once everything was like stable with the new world order in trouble, that there was essentially like people that were chosen to be rulers of the different territories, essentially. So uh I was introduced shortly after I moved to Tucson um by Schmeagel to someone I was presented to was related to him. But now I wonder if it was if he wasn't actually related, but was maybe just like a mentorship role. But regardless, you know, he was about 10 years, about 10 years older than myself, you know, like 10 to 15 years older than myself. And he was essentially um for my other role, the role in the crews that had signed the documents, the, you know, the dark queen royalty type role that was created, um, was to essentially be a second in command for the guy that had been chosen to be like the king of this territory. So to be his queen, but it's still more, I say queen, but still more like you're like a second in command. Like I said, it's like you're like that sex kit and bodyguard. You're also because of like the um problem solving stuff, being able to help with like, you know, organization and logistics sides of things, you know, and people management, even being a giz lane to him, to finding his victims, you know, there wasn't any emotional attachment there as like him as us having a relationship, you know, is more, you know, that, you know, that, you know, and and you know, just and being a breeder, you know, essentially just making, making kids, you know, with him, you know, and still even with that role, 35 was the cutoff, though. You know, I was expected to be play that role until, you know, it seemed like mid-20s, you know, or like, you know, early 20s, until I was like 35 and then be, you know, replaced essentially, like with, you know, with the um kind of always the understanding with that. So, so a lot of that, you know, really was just about, you know, just knowing how to be just like a like a ruthless ruler who just knew what, you know, what to get done, you know, basically. So um, so those were the two, the two roles, you know, that uh were really specifically for me, like geared towards like, you know, the like this like new world order agenda. But like I said, like for me, it's something I kind of almost like laugh at a tiny bit now, just because it's realizing how off the timeline was, you know, and that like, you know, that they, you know, it they really expected, you know, that this, that, you know, whatever was gonna happen, you know, this this role that they would need for hunting or be refugees or something, they expected it was gonna happen at least a decade ago, I think, you know, or like, you know, maybe, you know, sooner, earlier than that, who knows, you know, but it's it's really realizing that's the case at this point makes me feel optimistic that like more and more they're getting, you know, the psychopaths, you know, the pedophiles, everyone's getting exposed. People are understanding that they exist in society and what they do, you know, and um I really feel like the likelihood that the agenda is ever gonna succeed, you know. I mean, I I really, you know, like think Buddha, Jesus, higher power, you know, I really I'm optimistic that, you know, we're we're heading on the right path, you know. So um, but yeah, I man, I feel like that was like forever. So much word vomit. I I hope it was helpful to like you and any any survivors or anyone who's like an ally. Um I think that's pretty, I mean, that's I mean, it's it's not everything when you think about the number of when you think about the number of like instances. Of course, it's not everything, you know. But for me, it's at least, you know, the main events that really kind of give like a good arc as far as like to for people to understand the number of things that people go through, the different motivations, I guess, a little bit, you know, because it's so hard, so hard to understand. And people can know how much child pornography is out there just by volume. But for some reason, it's just like really understanding like where those victims come from and all that stuff still seems to be like a big like mystery to most people, you know. And um it's just something I hopeful, I hope can be helpful, you know, is just sharing my experience about uh about everything that happened and people understanding the motivations, you know, without even, you know, many of your guests have gone into paperclip and stuff like that. So understanding that motivation behind, you know, why they understand the developmental ages and when to do the different traumas and stuff. But it's like, I mean, to me, on a certain level, it's like, you know, paper clip or no paperclip, psychic psychopaths are going to still be psychopaths, you know, and this is still gonna still gonna exist, you know. So um hopefully. Hopefully we're we're just knocking down, knocking down that wall, like one little bit at a time.

SPEAKER_02 3:18:05

We are. Oh my goodness. And your testimony gives gives me so much hope, too. You know, seeing younger survivors coming forward, people like you, Gray. There's more and more that are starting to come out. It's like the programming itself is breaking. I feel it'll continue maybe breaking a little bit earlier because there's so many awakened people out there. This information is not so hard to come by now. I mean, it is, but it's becoming easier. You can go type in like mind control in a search and find a million different things on it, you know, or survivors or SRA or ritual abuse, you know, human trafficking, like their attempt at censoring that information, you know, through controlling the internet doesn't work either. Like it didn't work, it backfired on them. They can go ahead and check it all they want, but our voices are here, they're loud and they're not going anywhere. And we're all connecting, we're all finding each other, and we're all getting louder, you know. And there's people like you that are willing to just take a chance and come out and share your testimony. And now you're handing that torch over, and there's going to be more people who listen to your story that say, I want to stand up and have a voice too. Carrie inspired me, you know, and the most the most beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 3:19:20

Even if it's just one person, I would be grateful, you know.

SPEAKER_02 3:19:22

Yes, a hundred percent. And like the most beautiful part about your story is seeing you here today smiling in the place where you have a beautiful career that you love, you have the man of your dreams and a and a beautiful son, and you're able to sit here and speak in your conviction and with strength, and even literally to say, you know, if my perpetrator were to be walking the street, he's gonna be scared of me now. Like when you said that, that like sun chills up my spine, you know. It's just really beautiful to see the healing journeys that you go through and like how inspiring that is for other people on the other side who are struggling. Sorry, I'm gonna cry. Um, you know, just to see like what's on the other side if you start putting in the work and like connecting and researching, like it's our empowerment, like you said. It's how you take your power back by learning your gifts are beautiful. You had people that abused you because you were you were gifted, because you were talented, because you were beautiful, because you were a child of God. People took those gifts and exploited them and used them for things that are evil. And you can take that back and take those gifts and recognize that they're your God-given gifts and use them to create something beautiful, use them to have beautiful relationships, use them to be a good loving parent, use them to create a beautiful business, to draw, to write, to do whatever is in your heart that you didn't get the opportunity to explore as a child because your gifts are being exploited, you know? And that's like they created and manufactured the world that we're in right now. And the only reason why it exists is because they've convinced us that it's real, and so we believe it. And the way out of it is to create our way out of it. If we all say, What isn't what are my gifts that that are trying to be stifled, that are trying to be shut up, that people are trying to use or exploit, and say, How do I take that back and create, how do I create the world that I want instead? You know, they can't, as much as they want to copy God and try to be God, they can't. And those gifts are from God within us. That is how we bring God here to the world, is we create what He gave us. We create with the gifts that He gave us, the world that we want. And as soon as we all learn to do that, and by following your example and doing that, that's when we really take our power back, and that's when the world will start to change. You know, we can do this by coming together. And your testimony is such a beautiful example of that. And I hope people listening, you know, I know actually that they're gonna be inspired. And I hope that this encourages some people to find that strength that you have and to look at their situation a little bit differently and to want to, you know, use their story instead of letting their story use you. And I just can't thank you for coming on here and sharing because I know this is it's horrific just thinking about what you went through, you know, and hearing hearing your stories from your child's mind. Like it's so sad. But at the same time, I think it makes people care more. And when we can have that empathy, that's when we'll have the courage to take, to take what we're uh to take those God-given talents and to say, like, okay, I want to serve with them. Like, this is what I'm gonna contribute to this world and to this, to this movement, and to the children. You know, I'm gonna create something and I'm gonna have the courage to do it and to stand boldly and know that anybody that tries to mess with me, they better be scared, not me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:22:42

That's what I said. I said that's like my my thing I said the other day, and I still, I still love, you know, is that I feel like, especially when you look at all the all the um knife crap, you know, that it was just like, damn, like I I feel and I look at and all my strengths, you know, like I said, you know, the the art, you know, like the you know, just just the you know, introspection, just a lot of the stuff, you know, that I just felt like I was just like, damn, like I feel like they like honed like a really sharp weapon and now it's like pointing at them. And you know, and that's like that's like how like that's like the point that I am like so grateful to have come to in my therapy, you know, is that you know, like everything you said is giving me like goosebumps because that's like that's how I how I feel, you know. I have and it's just so grateful to be, you know, in a place of, you know, I I jokingly was in hermit mode the past like six years because I after a year of healing uh on the incest, I I came out to my family um and publicly on Facebook about the about the abuse and you know, all all shit hit the fan, you know, but also it was parts of me that felt like we were very vulnerable still to, you know, you still hadn't, I still hadn't processed all the emotions, all the memories and worked through all the lives and everything. So it's like it was very much still being in this the past six years of my life, being in this point, you know, where I felt like I had to stay small, it had to stay hidden, you know, that if if that if uh Smeagol were to see me, if like my dad or uncle were to see me, you know, that they would, you know, that they would, they would just smash you down, you know what I mean? Or they would they would pick you back up and put you back in that fucking cage or something like that, you know? And it it was really, it it was finally that's that's why I really encourage everyone to heal, you know, is when it's one thing to like understand, like, oh, like I I don't have anything to be given for, or oh, like, you know what I mean, intellectually, you know, like it's one thing to understand things. But as a survivor, you just like you have to come to the point where you really believe and feel in your soul like the things that people are telling you, that you never did anything wrong, that you were a victim, that you know, all that stuff, you know. And so for me, that's why I really try and encourage, you know, survivors of, you know, and and you don't have to go through something this drastic, you know, like even like small traumas that we go through and can hold on to, they can still negatively affect our lives like forever, you know. And that's that's where I just feel like it's just so, you know, the the reward is in is is in the process, you know, and to feel like I said now, like to to know that I had years of just hardcore fear when it came to thinking about my abusers, if I see them on the street, if this, that, the other, you know what I mean? Or or even thinking like, am I still triggerable or all that kind of stuff, you know? And then to just get to the point where it's like you, you know, it it does all sink in, you know, really that, you know, that you were a kid then, you're an adult now, you know, that these motherfuckers, they only bully kids, you know, and that, you know, you never see them being like this with like adults and stuff like that. And that when you can really internalize that, you know, like, you know, where you're at presently, which is probably a very safe place, you know, and and everything, you know, and who that you have in your life and everything like that, then it really does like in it it takes stuff that was standing in the way of enjoying all of those things and finally just like makes it go away and all the fear goes away, you know, and not all of it, you know, it's still you're gonna still have to deal with some process stuff, you know, as as you know, as life comes about, you know. But regardless to be in a point where you know, like know essentially, like really know that like you have no responsibility for that shit and really understand, you know, that like that, you know, that that like you said, that you're a child of God and a child of light. And all the things that they did to force you to believe that you were evil or worthless or, you know, unlovable by anyone except for them, or all or like them, you know, all those things that they did, you know, really were were just lies that were told to a kid. And it's kind of sad that like on the other side of it, it almost feels like silly that I believed those things for so long, you know. And it's very heartbreaking too to know it stood in the way of me really enjoying the life that I had, you know. Um, but it's why is why I'm here today, you know, is because this is helping me to like continue to feel empowered and continue on my path. I'm hoping it'll help other people to do that, you know, and um, and hopefully it's like, you know, it's it's the first of, you know, maybe, maybe more instances, you know, that like I can, like I said, I was thinking about starting a channel and everything that I can do some help, you know, with with uh, you know, giving some people some insights of just what worked for me, you know, during my healing process to get to this place of like gratitude from the place of fear that I had been living in. So yeah, thank you. I mean, you're you're like, you're like you're doing, you're doing God's work, you know. Just like, I mean, I I could not be here unless you had, you know, been here and inspired me for, you know, for a couple years now. So so thank you, Emma.

SPEAKER_02 3:27:38

Oh, okay. Thank you too. It's such an honor to have you on. This is such a special episode and such, I mean, you went into a lot of detail too that I think is gonna help people understand things that maybe they wouldn't have been clear about before. So I know that this was it's always so hard to talk about all of this. And I appreciate you coming on and taking your time out to talk to us and educate us and to share your story, you know, and and it's it's everything that they don't want, you know. And I just love that. Like, I love all the ways that you've broken through everything. Like you, you shouldn't be here, you know. And here you are speaking your testimony on a public platform, and it just like I'm cheering you on, and so is everybody. And I'm I'm I know I speak on behalf of everybody, like please start a channel. Like, we would all love that. I'll help you. I'm really excited for that. You're made for this.

SPEAKER_00 3:28:28

Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you. I like I I feel like I mean, I just feel like it it's from being an AA for over a decade, you know, it really feels like part of my healing has always been like trying to like whatever I have, trying to give it away. It just, you know, even from a selfish standpoint, it does, it just helps really it sink in for yourself, you know, too. So um that's and that's where I'm at, you know, with this is like I've in person, I've talked to so many people about healing and about, you know, about sexual abuse in their past and different stuff like that, and being able to like help them with like some guidance on like dealing with the stuff and everything. But you know, I mean, just when it comes to very like nuts and bolts things like journaling tips and stuff like that, I do feel like it's like it's really it it sounds crazy, but it's like when it comes to the trauma healing in my experience, it really is. It's like it's it's the simple things that you make a habit of that really do make the long-term difference, you know. And I feel like sometimes when you're in that, like, especially if you're new to dealing with like your your flashbacks and all that kind of stuff, it's easy to get overwhelmed. So I think that like it would be really helpful to sometimes have little little steps, you know, concrete things that was really helpful for me to just feel like I was making some progress and not just like disappearing into like this, like, you know, ocean of shit.

SPEAKER_02 3:29:48

100%. Yes, that would be amazing. And again, thank you so much for coming on. Do you have any closing thoughts before we start wrapping up?

SPEAKER_00 3:29:56

Um no, I don't think so, other than, you know, just like just like to reiterate, you know, if like if you're on your healing path, stay on it, you know. Like look look for, you know, resources like Emma. Um, I have like other other resources, um, like a book by Allison Miller that I would really recommend. Um, I don't know the oh, it's called Becoming Yourself, um, Healing from Ritual Abuse and Mind Control by Allison Miller. I think it's uh a really wonderful book that, you know, just very is very if it if you think that what you're dealing with is, you know, like more structured programming type of stuff, I feel like it fills in a lot of the gaps that regular DID stuff research kind of misses, essentially. And then the one other resource I would love people to look up is um a therapist named uh John Uler. Um he has, I think he has like a YouTube and uh, you know, has been on, but I would just recommend looking up looking him up and listening to some podcasts that he's been on. Most of what he talks about is uh is um understanding psychopathy, so understanding the abusers. And in my opinion, that was a huge, a huge factor into me taking a lot of the responsibility and guilt and ownership off of my actions was once I could really understand the way a psychopath's brain worked, their motivations, all that stuff, I could really see the manipulation for what it was. So that's that's the only other, you know, for survivors, those are the two resources. Um, and his name is spelled J-O-N and U-H-L-E-R. So um, either of those, I would definitely recommend. They were really helpful, you know, for me, among other things. Um but uh yeah, I just I just wish everyone like stays safe and blessed and everything out there and just like just on their journey, moving towards the light, you know, because that's where we all belong.

SPEAKER_02 3:31:51

Thank you so much for that. That's so encouraging and what a beautiful note to leave off on. And we all wish the same for you, Carrie. So I ask everybody, please send all your love, send all your prayers, send all your light, all your healing energy, all of your positive energy and you know, prayers of protection over Carrie and her family. As she continues to do this, we want her to be safe while she does it. And, you know, for for anybody who tries to cross her path to be, you know, absolutely terrified of her because we can see she is forced to be reckoned with.

SPEAKER_01 3:32:19

I'm great, Ally.

SPEAKER_02 3:32:20

I wish they could have a hug, you know. Oh my goodness, you're such a force to be reckoned with. You're such a strong woman. So I'm so grateful that you're on. We'll have to have you on again for sure. But I'm so grateful that I made a friend out of this and that you're in my life and and this is just amazing. So I really appreciate you coming on. And for everybody listening, we couldn't do this without you. I'll leave Carrie's resources that she recommended, the books and resources for healing. I'll link those below. That way you guys can go purchase them if you want or go find them. Um, and please share, comment. Anything helps us, you know, these these topics don't really get elevated in the algorithm. So any help from you guys is is awesome. So thank you guys so much. God bless you, and we will see you next week.